Latency in factor pedals set with the DSP-bypass option?

[Ulfern]

Hi! Im using three factor pedals in my parallell effects loop (mesa dual rectifier). When any of the pedals are set with DSP bypass i get a latency (or something) that really destroys the soud when the effects loop is on, the effect it self doesnt need to be activeted. 

When i run in relay mode i dont have this problem, but..The problem is when i run the true bypass mode (relay) i get a pretty big volume drop as soon as i activete a effects. 

I know i can set the presets for higher output and it can help, but just to a degree.

Any smart solutions or someone else with similar problems?

I have the pedals set 100 % wet and mix it with the mesa "clean" signal with the controls on the back of the amp.

[nickrose]

Have you tried KILLDRY ?

[Ulfern]

I guess i could but then i cant combine effects from the different effects in my loop.

[Grigg Haws]

Just an observation, I have found the effects loops on mesa's to be problematic. they seem to have higher than normal levels. and Or overall impedances that are different.

[goldglob]

I think what you're hearing is phase cancellation caused by mixing the original signal with an A/D converted signal .The A/D signal is very slightly delayed and out of phase with the original. This is the problem with parallel loops. In my experience all you can do is have your loop modified to serial…  or get another amp…sorry not good news but I've been through all this. Most amp manufacturers realize this nowadays. In the old days the theory was that a parallel loop ensured that your original incredible tone to die for was intact…they now know that with digital effects in the loop parallel sucks.

[Ulfern]

Yepp your explanation is correct, but still, with relay mode i dont have that problem, or is it just less obvious? With less obvious i mean maybe the problem is there but only when effects are on. I play metal so i have a hard time hearing subtleties when we play the whole band. 🙂

Could Kill dry be a solution to phase issues really? (then i could live with just using one loop-pedal at the time)

Anyhow, im pretty fed up with this loop by now… Im going to look into the cost of transforming it to a serial loop as well.

And thanks guys for the feed back so far! 🙂

[goldglob]

Converting to series is usually a very simple procedure for an amp guy. If you don't have a schematic try to find one online rather than he having to find it.

[Ulfern]

Also, using kill dry i guess wont work, i have three factor pedals in the loop if the first is set to kill dry, no signal comes through to the next pedal, or have i missunderstood this feture?

[nickrose]

You understand well. With KILLDRY on, dsp bypass causes the output to be muted, so it won't feed anything after it.

[Ulfern]

Goldglobe> I saw in some other tread that you got the timefactor to work well with the mesa parallell effects loop. How did you do that? Maybe i can try the same method. 

As it is now its either DSP – phase problems (amp and effects sounds crap) or Relay (true bypass) – big volume drop when effects are engaged.

Also i read a bit about the series loop mod on the mesa, the design on the amp doesnt really make this work, since you will have a bit of dry signal in the mix either way. The mesa mix (on effets loop) are not 0-100 % but 10-90 % for some reason…

[goldglob]

Sorry, must be a mistake, I've never actually owned a Mesa, and I've never solved the parallel loop problem without having it modified to series (I had this done to a small Laney amp) . My local tech guy showed me on the schematic what he did…it was simply a matter of removing one wire and moving another…something like that. It might be slightly different on the Mesa, but I don't think the mix knob will even come into it…with series you won't need it. Best thing I think is to take the schematic to someone local  who knows about amps.

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