rolling your own algorithms: how does it work etc. ?

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    • February 26, 2008 at 10:50 pm #105394
      tim
      Member

       hi,

       Hi. I am a digital modular synth enthusiast, who is interested in the deeper features of the H8000.

      I have been using the Clavia NordModular G2 digital modular synthesizer extensively for the last 4 years and consider myself proficient in digital modular synthesis. The G2 is great, but I am looking for something with better sound quality for a specific custom application.

       I've downloaded the H8000 user manual, but nowhere does it give any insight into the creation of custom algorithms, but refers to a "programmers manual" instead.

      Can this manual be downloaded somewhere?

      Or if not: can somebody answer a few questions for me?

      -How modular is the internal architecture of the H8000? Can I really build my own signal chains from basic building blocks like delay lines, filters, amplifiers etc.?

      -How controllable is the H8000 over MIDI? Which parameters can I control, and how many?

      thanks (from a  maybe soon-H8000-buyer)

       tim

    • February 27, 2008 at 4:49 am #117036
      cl516
      Participant

      yes i'm curious too. experienced users please?

    • February 27, 2008 at 9:13 am #117039
      IDeangelis
      Member

      Hi Tim

      welcome to the forum!

      The programmers manual is an old one we provided in the Orville days. Today you only need to refer to Vsig manual for all information about programming. 

      Here:

      http://www.eventide.com/AudioDivision/Products/Accessories/VSIG.aspx

      The modular architecture of the H8000 is deep! You can even build your own UI, with knobs numeric monitors, graphic monitors, menupages, etc…. You can build anything (I'm on 10000+ algorithms built right now). You have access to audio, math, control, UI aspects nothing in the market of FX processors gives you.

      The unit is fully controllable via MIDI, any parameter and there is no limitations to the number, provided the power of the unit is not exhausted by any aspect in its use.

      all the best

      I 

    • February 27, 2008 at 1:59 pm #117040
      tim
      Member

      Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I appreciate it. 🙂

      I've glanced over the Vsig manual. Wow, the H8000 is getting more and more interesting! 😉 It seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. A fully MIDI-automatable high-quality modular FX platform. Fantastic.

      I still have some more questions though:
      1)The manual shows how to integrate the H8000 with a DAW running Emagic Logic. Is it also possible to integrate it with Steinberg Cubase/Nuendo? (Are there ASIO drivers for it?) Wouldn't this neatly turn the H8000 into a sort of audio interface too?
      2) Could I theoretically build a small 8-channel mixer (4 x stereo) on this unit (using the 8 ADAT ins), with EQs and insert modulation-type FX (eg. chorus) per channel, and sends for some global FX? Is there enough DSP horsepower for something like this?
      3) Can I also patch potentially hazardous stuff like feedbacks into the algorithms? 😀 I love stuff like this…

      Thanks.

      best,
      tim

    • February 27, 2008 at 3:27 pm #128076
      IDeangelis
      Member

       Tim

      this is a monster!

      Re the integration w/DAW software, the unit has drivers for the Firewire connection.

      Be aware there are some limitations with Fw drivers in these softwares. Some allow drivers aggregation (audio interface + H8000FW) like Logic and ProTools, others don't.

      You can obviously use the unit via ADAT/AES-EBU/Analog/S.Pdif.

      You can build a 50 ch mixer!

      You can do all you described. yes there is more horsepower than that. The 2 DSPs can also automatically switch to Monolithic Mode to run a single HUGE algorithm if it doesn't fit in a single dsp.

      You can create any feedback path you want, both inside the algorithm and the unit I/Os…. with care!

      That's all you need to do?

      Big Smile

      I 

    • February 28, 2008 at 10:17 am #128084
      tim
      Member

      Thanks for your explanations. The Windows drivers for the H8000 are unfortunately WDM, not ASIO. Too bad…

       Some more questions (I hope you don't mind…)

      1) I saw that the H8000 has oscillator modules. Would it theoretically even be possible to build a sort of keyboard-playable synthesizer in the machine?

      2) I checked out the presets manual and saw many harmonizers which snap the voices to a given diatonic scale and stuff like that. Is there also a way to make voices snap to MIDI notes coming from a keyboard, so you could actually play melodies and chords with an untrained voice?

      3) Do I have 16 available inputs in monolithic mode?

      4) What is the update rate of the control signals? Are they smoothed in relation to audio?

      Thank alot.

        

    • February 28, 2008 at 2:40 pm #128085
      IDeangelis
      Member

       Hi again Tim!

      It's possible to create a keyboard playable software.

      Pitch shifting can't be controlled via MIDI notes as you would like it to be, at the moment.

      The unit always has 8 I/O from/to the outside world. The 8 inputs can be connected to both DSPs inputs for 8 channel parallel routing. The 8 outputs of both DSPs can be summed at the 8 physical outputs.

      Control is more than sufficiently faster for all tasks. Audio to Control and Control to Audio modules are also available to add more smoothness if needed.

      cheers

      I 

    • February 28, 2008 at 7:59 pm #128095
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

       The H8000FW has ASIO drivers as well as WDM.

    • February 29, 2008 at 12:52 pm #128100
      Eastward_In_Eden
      Member

      Terrific ideas, Tim. 

      If you have not yet experimented with any Eventide equipment … well,  sending a stereo signal from a synthesizer (mine is a PolyEvolver) through such things as ReversePitch Shifters, Ring and Pan Delays, 10-sec. DualReverse Loops…and reverbs that last forever…  🙂 

       Just be prepared for a jaw-dropping shock & awe !   Currently I'm filling the piggy bank while reading thru the H8000's Preset Manual and trying to visualize what could be done in 5.1 surround.  Please keep us informed as to your success with the 8000 !  

       -Richard M

    • February 29, 2008 at 1:36 pm #128101
      tim
      Member

      The reason why I'm interested in the H8000 is thus:

       I've been working extensively with the Clavia NordModular G2 synthesizer for the last 4 years. In the meantime, I can proudly claim to have developed the first (and sofar only) elastic audio algorithm for that platform. So I consider myself fairly proficient with advanced digital modular synthesis.

      However, in the last year or so, I've become increasingly dissatisfied with some of the G2s shortcomings. The quality of some of the modules is not on a professional level, and also the DA/AD converters are not stellar. Combine that wth the fact that there still are some serious and severly compromising bugs in the OS, which the company isn't inclined to fix because the G2 didn't sell well enough. Talk about customer loyalty…

      I've decided to take those types of synthesis back into the analog domain, which analog still does best. (I've still yet to find a digital algorithm that doesn't produce sonic garbage when having to do audiorate oscillator synchronisation combined with linear FM and pulse width modulation….) So I'm looking into some analog gear. For the digital side of things, I'm also looking around. The G2 was my "swiss army knife for audio", and I'm looking for something that can replace it, but with improved sound quality and long term customer loyalty and support (and hopefully backward-compatibility). It takes years to learn these kind of machines, it's a big investment of time, so you want a company that doesn't leave you out in the open just a few years down the line.

       Of course, there are great digital modular platforms for computers these days -Reaktor, Tassman, etc.. But I'm looking for a reliable and roadworthy stand-alone unit (I will be using it live). Something that can handle anything I throw at it. That's why I asked those questions. On the G2, I can build whatever I want and need. I wanted to know if the H8000 can do the same (or perhaps more).

       Thanks for reading.

      best,

      tim 

    • February 29, 2008 at 2:36 pm #128102
      IDeangelis
      Member

      Hi Tim

      I believe Clavia and Eventide have two specific different areas they cover each one, synths and FX. Even though each of the products does things the other does too, I recognize tha value of Clavia synths and Eventide FX. One doesn't do both better than the other. We are dedicated to FX and openess of the platform allows you to create just about anything. There are some synths that can be done in Karplus-Strong and FM syhthesis but Clavia remains a highly more specialized synths companies. So any of the 2 products is not a substitute for the other; more a complementary addition to it. But when it comes to FX…well…there is no game! Imagine creating your own reverbs, choosing the number of delays in the verb itself, the placement of external delays and early reflections networks AND diffusers, adding any type of filter and placing it where you like, adding modulation of parameters…and more fx to make that verb unique (plex/shifters/ringmods/resonators/etc.). 

      The modular structure supported by Vsigfile has been developed for 15+ years now and most algorithms are also retro_compatible, from the early '90s DSP4000 to today H8000FW, thru 4500-7000-7500-Orville units. 

      all the best

      I 

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