Communication between PF, TF and MF

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- April 2, 2009 at 12:43 am #106150
  
  cattaneo
  Participant
  
  Hi,
  
  I have a Time Factor and I'm thinking about getting the other 2 pedals to get the ultimate soundscaping rig. I'm wondering how well the pedals communicate together, for example:
  
  -could the tap tempo in the TF control the tempo of the other 2 pedals if they are connected together via midi?
  
  -could the same aux pedal control all three pedals (for tap tempo or bank shifting or bypass).
  
  -can you get all 3 pedals to change presets simultaneously by pressing on only one pedal? Change preset on the TF and then the MF and PF will follow? That way, it seems it would be ok to have all three pedals without a midi controller.
  
  -can you have one expression pedal control settings in all three units at the same time?I would probably want to have three independant exp pedals anyway, but it might be fun to have one exp pedal control all three units altogether.
  
  I'd like to hear from user who have experimented with TF and MF together, without a midi controller.
- April 2, 2009 at 10:23 am #118452
  
  badmelonfarmer
  Participant
  
  Hi cattaneo,
  
  I have a TF and MF at the moment and will have a PF as soon as they hit the UK shores!
  
  I had a custom TRS (stereo) splitter made that I have used for an expression pedal to control both the TF and MF pedals, it is functional but I am not sold on the practicality of it due to the fact that you might not like the way both pedals are controlled in the same way.
  
  for example one patch I use a lot onthe TF is banddelays guitars in space, I was trying the Wah on the MF with the expression pedal, but guitars in space uses the expression pedal for wet/dry mix… the results were disapointing. you would need to go through and disable patches from using expression control if you did not want them to be controlled, I think it would be a lot of work for little gain IHMO … so I will probably go with separate expression pedals.
  
  as far a shared tap tempo, I have not investigated the midi side, but I had a small clone of a boss FS-5u made with 3 sockets, which I plan to plug into all three pedals as tap tempo is something that you would probably use across all 3.
  
  regarding a shared 3 switch for up down, I think that would get really confusing and not really be that useful due to the fact that the number of preset banks on all three boxes are different.
  
  the default is 10 on TF and 20 on MF. you can set TF to use 20, but 11 to 20 are the same as 1 to 10.
  
  it might work if you moved patches arround to be all the same, but again it would require a fair bit of work.
  
  Hope that helps
  
  Cheers
  
  BMF
- April 2, 2009 at 6:22 pm #118458
  
  cattaneo
  Participant
  
  Hi BadMelonFarmer,
  
  Good idea about splitting an aux switch, but what I want to know is how information can be relayed from one pedal to the other. Even with a midi controller, if you can't daisy chain the pedals, you're screwed. For example, midi controller to TF and then what? If TF won't send midi to MF, it's game over. You would need a midi controlelr with 2 or 3 sends. Sounds more complicated than it needs to be. It PF is a little more evolved, but even then, if you want to use all three unit, PF might send to TF but that's it. Anyhow, I hope someone from Eventide will post what the pedals can and can't do in that respect.
  
  Ideally, all pedals would be synched via midi, and then tap tempo would apply to all three simultaneously. Idem with presets changes. You could design sounds that involve all 3 units and have certain presets be blank when you don't need a unit. examples:
  
  TF reverse – MF Auto Wah – PF Pitchflex
  
  TF blank – MF Undulator – PF Crystals
  
  That sort of thing. I mean, how are you going to deal with these 3 pedals otherwise? Regular stompboxes have on-off, not banks. If you need to chnage banks and presets on 3 units at once, that's a lot of tap dancing.The song might be over by the time you got it all figured out!!!
- April 2, 2009 at 7:07 pm #129601
  
  badmelonfarmer
  Participant
  
  yeah, understood what you mean.
  
  I can't seem to link direct to a thread, but check out the thread "Ideas for future Timefactor update" do a search for it and in it they mention being able to sync with midi system clock which will be added int he next TF and MF release.
  
  the rest can be done, but you would have to do some midi mapping or assign the desired settings to be the same banks accross all pedals. – Like I said I am no midi guy but have been looking into it for the tap dancing reasons you mention.
  
  I would like to use my line6 pod X3 Live to do the controlling of the factor boxes…. not even started yet!
  
  I wanted to get to grips with the PF first.
  
  Cheers
  
  BMF
- April 4, 2009 at 4:11 am #129605
  
  wedelich
  Moderator
  Eventide Staff
  
  Hi guys,
  
  Thanks for thinking creatively about the capability of these boxes! Cattaneo, these things you want to do should all be possible. To answer your specific questions:
  
  Even
  with a midi controller, if you can't daisy chain the pedals, you're
  screwed. For example, midi controller to TF and then what? If TF won't
  send midi to MF, it's game over.
  
  1.
  in reference to your routing issues, you can definitely daisy chain
  them. You'll have one "master" pedal (for now it would be best to use
  a PF) and 2 "slave" pedals. If you use DIN5 for MIDI cables (the ones
  on the side), make sure your master OUTPUT is set to XMT and your slaves are
  set to THRU. You can change b/t XMT and THRU in the system mode under
  MIDI / OUTPUT.
  
  -could
  the tap tempo in the TF control the tempo of the other 2 pedals if they
  are connected together via midi?
  
  2.
  As of right now, only PF supports MIDI clock out (thats why I said it
  should be the master). Just make sure it is set to transmit MIDI
  clock, and that the other two are set to receive MIDI clock. In this set up, all
  you do is tap the tempo into the PF. Alternatively, if you don't have
  a PF, but you have some aux switches, just plug the aux switches into
  your master pedal, use an aux switch for tap and set that same aux
  switch to send MIDI CC. Then use that same CC on the slave pedals to
  control tap.
  
  -could the same aux pedal control all three pedals (for tap tempo or bank shifting or bypass).
  
  3. The answer is yes, but to further clarify you can assign a XMT MIDI CC to any aux switch and assign that RCV MIDI CC to many functions in the pedal including bank shifting or bypass. All the send sources and receive destinations for MIDI CC are detailed in the manual.
  
  -can
  you get all 3 pedals to change presets simultaneously by pressing on
  only one pedal? Change preset on the TF and then the MF and PF will
  follow? That way, it seems it would be ok to have all three pedals
  without a midi controller.
  
  4. Yes this is also possible, and in more than one way. I think the best way to do the group preset changing thing is to use
  the XMT map on the master pedal and the RCV map on the slaves. The Map sends MIDI program change data whenever a preset is changed, like for 1:2 to 2:1. The default factory settings directly map preset banks from the master to slave (so 1:1 on the master is 1:1 on slave, 1:2 is 1:2, etc), just make sure you turn XMT map ON on the master. Of course you can do any mapping you like, like 1:1 to 9:1, etc. The other way to do this would be to assign MIDI CC XMTs and RCVs from/to bank changes.Yes, you can definitely do this using the MIDI CCs, the exp pedal is one of the options.
  
  -can you have one expression pedal control settings in all three units
  at the same time?I would probably want to have three independant exp
  pedals anyway, but it might be fun to have one exp pedal control all
  three units altogether.
  
  Yes, you can definitely do this using the MIDI CCs, the exp pedal is one of the options that can either send (the master) or receive (the slave) MIDI CC.
  
  Hope this helps. The manuals will have more specifics on how to set this stuff up, but, as always, if you have some specific questions, don't hestitate to ask them here.
- April 7, 2009 at 7:43 pm #129620
  
  cattaneo
  Participant
  
  Thanks RWedelich, very helpful indeed. I might have more questions when I actually start setting this up, but to know that it's even possible to do these things is great.
- August 17, 2009 at 5:27 pm #130039
  
  pippiultima
  Member
  
  Hi everybody! I'm interested in buying TF+PF. But I would like to know if it's possible to:
  
  1- Connecting thrue midi, TF in bank mode e PF in play mode -> Using TF to change bank and program in each pedal and at the same time, using the tap-tempo of PF to set the clock to each pedal, is it possible? Or I need an aux pedal for example to PF and set it "Master"?
  
  2- And if I have also an E.B. jp25k volume pedal conected to PF. With the same set up described in the first question (TF for change program/bank + PF for change tap-tempo), can I also manage different parameter simultaneously of the 2 pedal?
  
  Sorry for my language, I hope you understand
  
  Andrea
- August 17, 2009 at 6:40 pm #130040
  
  achaput
  Moderator
  
  Hi Andrea,
  
  1. Yes, your first question is possible. I just tried it! You just have to make sure that the MIDI OUTPUT of both pedals is set to "OUT" and not "THRU".
  
  2. Yes, your second question is possible as well. If you plug an expression pedal into PitchFactor (keeping the factory default XMT CC for PDL to C15) and set TimeFactor RCV CTL/ PDL to C15, then you can control both PitchFactor and TimeFactor with the same expression pedal.
- August 18, 2009 at 9:23 am #130043
  
  pippiultima
  Member
  
  GREAT! THANKS A LOT… I'm going to spend my money NOW!
- August 19, 2009 at 9:03 am #130046
  
  pippiultima
  Member
  
  achaput:
  
  Hi Andrea,
  
  1. Yes, your first question is possible. I just tried it! You just have to make sure that the MIDI OUTPUT of both pedals is set to "OUT" and not "THRU".
  
  Sorry but I need a little precisation: with TF I'd like to change program staying in bank mode while in PF I always like to stay in play mode (to always set tap tempo and activate or not effect). Example. In bank 1 of TF I set Analog delay in 1.1 e reverse in 2.1. When I select effect 1.1 I also change effect in PF (for example quadravox) and when I select effect 2.1 in TF I change effect (for example octaver) in PF. My question is: PF will be in play mode anyway? If I change effect with TF too??? Or probably I could find it in bank mode because of the program changing?
- August 21, 2009 at 3:19 pm #130059
  
  achaput
  Moderator
  
  Hi Andrea,
  
  PitchFactor will stay in Play Mode even when TimeFactor is changing its presets via MIDI.
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