MP-201 MIDI Expression MELTDOWN!

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    • October 20, 2009 at 12:06 pm #106553
      jufros
      Member

      I'm trying to get the Moog MP-201 to control my Eventide stompbox pedals and am going completely insane in trying to do so!

      For starters, the majority of the time, two of the three pedals will sync to MIDI clock data from the MP-201.  If I reboot them all enough times, sometimes I get lucky and all 3 of them will sync up.  I have no idea what the problem here is.

      Secondly, each Eventide pedal responds completely differently to sweeps on the MP-201's expression pedal.  

      Pitchfactor: 
      -In order to program heel values on the PF, you need a CV heel value of 0 on the MP-201. 
      -Unfortunately, the MP-201 does not trigger any actual CC data on the PF until you reach about 2208 (MIDI value of about 52). If you were to set the heal value at 2208 on the MP-201, you wouldn't be able to program heel values on the PF. 
      -This makes the PitchFlex "Whammy" patch completely unusable and will give you annoyingly jumpy performance on pretty much every other sound. 

      Modfactor: 
      -A smooth sweep on the MP-201 will usually correspond to a smooth sweep in MIDI values on the Modfactor screen. 
      -The fact that you're seeing MIDI numbers rise and fall proportionately to the speed at which you sweep the pedal is pretty much meaningless though. The resolution is extremely jumpy and sounds awful. 
      -You can't use the MP-201 for the Modfactor's filter sounds at all because your ears literally can't discern a sweep at all. 
      -I tested this a few times: the MP-201 will exponentially increase the MIDI sweep the higher towards toe value you get. The bottom 35% of the sweep is pretty consistent but things get really ugly up top. 

      Timefactor: 
      -For some reason, it can't "keep up" with the MP-201. If you sweep heel to toe as quickly as possible on the MP-201, it will take the Timefactor about another second to reach toe MIDI value. 
      -If you're sweeping back and forth like you would with a wah pedal, the Timefactor's screen will display a lot of nonsensical MIDI expression data and alternate between values of 40-50 and 70-80. 
      -This visual glitch actually creates a considerable amount of audio unpredictability and unpleasantness. 

      I wired… 

      MP-201 MIDI OUT -> Pitchfactor MIDI IN 
      Pitchfactor MIDI THRU -> Modfactor MIDI IN 
      Modfactor MIDI THRU -> Timefactor MIDI IN 

      For this particular test, I only had one channel active on the MP-201.  It was transmitting MIDI on channel 1 and MIDI CC #0.  All of the Eventide pedals were set to receive on channel 1.  I tried having them receive on all channels (OMNI) and didn't have any different results.  I disabled all CC receive controls on all stompboxes except for PDL->C0 and FLEX->C0.  

      Is anyone else having as many problems as I am using an external MIDI controller to control their Eventide pedals or is the MP-201 particularly horrendous?  This is really a huge problem for me as I rely on both MIDI and CV equipment in my rig and am not sure what to sell off due to extreme bugginess.  

      I've posted this on the Moog forums as well but Eventide seems to be MUCH more responsive and helpful than Moog.

    • October 20, 2009 at 3:18 pm #119292
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Sounds like you might want to try a different pedal.

      You could use a normal resistive pedal with a 3 way Y-lead as long as this will not create ground loops.

      Also, there may be issues with MIDI thru. Temporarily connect each Factor in turn directly to the pedal and see if you have the same problems.

      The Factor pedals have a 5% margin for heel and toe detection, so you only need to be close to 0, not actually hit it.

      You would probably be wise not to use a MIDI pedal for very fast sweeping – there is always a bit of "rubberiness."

    • October 20, 2009 at 3:39 pm #119293
      jufros
      Member

      Ok I'll definitely try that out.  I use MIDI bypass loopers to engage/disengage a lot of analog pedals (including a few Moog pedals).  So the advantage of the MP-201 was always that I'd be able to recall bypass configurations, change Eventide patches on all 3 pedals, and pre-configure/control a few parameters on CV accepting analog pedals just by advancing presets on the controller.  I was also really hoping that I'd be able to use the MP-201 to, for example, sweep analog filters while pitch flexing (PF), increasing increasing tremolo depth (MF), and backing off on the delay wet mix (TF) simultaneously.  I play live electronica music and this degree of simultaneous control is really invaluable to me.

      But if the only way that I'll be able to get smooth sweeps out of the Eventide boxes is with an analog expression pedal, I'm willing to concede controlling them with the MP-201's expression pedal.  I could still recall presets via MIDI and assuming I can get the MIDI clock sync issue ironed out, I'll be in pretty good shape.

      Is there a particular expression pedal and more importantly, a particular 3-way splitting device that you would recommend?

    • October 22, 2009 at 8:50 am #119304
      jufros
      Member

      One more question…

      The MP-201 has 4 CV outputs that each operate on a 0-5V scale.  In the Eventide stomp box manuals, they specify that you should use 0-3V CV inputs with them.  Would it be unsafe to use the MP-201 to control the Eventides via CV?  It wouldn't be the most efficient system I can think of but I do have access to a CV splitter that could help conserve CV outputs.  I'd definitely be getting a much smoother sweep using analog CV (subdivided into a but over 4000 increments for 5V on the MP-201) than I could possibly using MIDI (a comparatively tiny 127 subdivisions).

    • October 22, 2009 at 3:35 pm #130436
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Assuming you plan to connect your CV to the pedal input, 5V may not necessarily break it (there is some protection), but it anything over 3.3V will be treated as 100%. A couple of resistors to reduce the 5V to 3.3V would be a good thing.

      If you are worried about the MIDI 127 step limit (usually enough for most things), you may want to use a controller that generates MIDI double (16383 steps). But, don't ask me which ones do this.

      Latest versions of TF, MF and PF support MIDI double.

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