H90 Quadravox Quantization Question

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    • April 6, 2024 at 1:45 pm #180699
      fiddlercrabseason
      Participant

        With Quadravox’s quantization param ‘off’, I’m still getting quantization of *some* – not all – pitch intervals, regardless of ‘key’ or ‘mode’.

        example 1:  A-C = off, D = 5th, Quant = off, Key = D, Mode = Major.  All notes played will produce a P5th, *except* C#, which produces a tri-tone.

        example 2:  A-C = off, D = 5th, Key = D#, Mode = Major.  Play note D.  Toggling quantization on & off has no effect, ie tri-tones in both positions.

        example 2:  A-C = off, D = 5th, Quant  = off.  Play any note and move the key or mode to hear the FX interval slip in & out of quantization.

         

        Does ‘off’ not really mean ‘off’, or is this a bug?

         

         

         

      • April 7, 2024 at 1:13 pm #180721
        fiddlercrabseason
        Participant

          I spent some more time with Quadravox this morning (and a few web searches) to see if I could figure out how/what/where/etc. the Quantization param does/doesn’t apply. And I still don’t get it. With D/minor selected, I get:

          OFF–m3-m3-m3-M3-M3…
          note-Dn-D#-En-Fn-F#…
          ON—m3-M2-m3-M3-m3…

          – when off, why the shifts between m3/M3? and why *those* shifts?
          – when on, why a M2nd? as opposed to a 3rd?

          Can someone on team Eventide give me Quadravox 101 tutorial regarding what to expect from the Quant param? (Maybe there’s a ‘Quadravox conversion chart’ laying around somewhere?) I’m just trying to anticipate what it can/can’t/will/won’t do.

          Thanks in advance.

          (ps – FTR, I’m not looking for a scale/mode/interval/etc. refresher. I’m on solid ground there.)

        • April 8, 2024 at 6:23 pm #180753
          tbskoglund
          Keymaster
          Eventide Staff

            When Quantization is on, all notes will be quantized to a note within the chosen key/scale. With Quantization off, you can still play notes that will be shifted outside of the chosen key/scale.

            Example 1: In D Major, C# is part of the scale (the 7th degree or M7) and gives you a tritone because a perfect fifth of C# would be G#, and that is not in the D Major scale. If you play notes that are within the chosen key/scale, they will be harmonized to notes that are within the chosen key/scale. When you play notes that are not in the chosen key/scale, you’ll always get a perfect 5th, even if it is not in the scale.

            Example 2: Same as above, you’re playing the 7th degree (M7) of the major scale. The perfect 5th would not be a note within D# major. Quant on/off will not affect this. The perfect 5th (A) would be the tritone of root note D# and would sound “dissonant”.

            It sounds like in your other examples you are harmonizing with 3rds, and these harmonies are switching between major/minor thirds to fit with what notes are in the D Minor scale. When Quant is on and you play a D# (not in the D Minor scale) it quantizes this note to the next scale degree, which is the 2nd (E).

            You can use other pitch-shifters that do not have key/scale parameters (Polyphony, Harmodulator) if always want a specific interval, for example, if you always want a fixed m3 harmony.

            Let me know if that helps.

          • April 8, 2024 at 8:47 pm #180758
            fiddlercrabseason
            Participant

              Thanks a million for the illuminating response.  It all makes sense now.  The big take-aways for me are:

              1) ‘quantization off’ does not/will not result in ‘chromatic harmonizing’.  ie, the key/scales are ‘always on’.  And

              2) this…

              tbskoglund wrote:

              … quantizes this note to the next scale degree…

              (emphasis mine)

              …which explains why the algo will sometimes produce 2nds when ‘pitch=3rd’ is selected, 3rds when ‘pitch=4th’ is selected, etc.

               

              I’ll make another pitch here for user editable and/or custom scale options in H90 (and/or RNBO in H90)…  Eventide’s top shelf pitch tracking combined with the ability to drop a Scala file onto a ‘scale’ param knob in Control (or via gen~) and let the non-western & microtonal fun begin. 🙂

               

              Thanks again.

            • April 9, 2024 at 8:48 am #180768
              brock
              Participant

                … 1) ‘quantization off’ does not/will not result in ‘chromatic harmonizing’. ie, the key/scales are ‘always on’ …

                And there are some advantages to be mined there.  And one big reason I always check tuning accuracy with the on-board tuner (whether or not that applies).

                And 2) this…

                tbskoglund wrote:

                … quantizes this note to the next scale degree…

                Also of (my) interest: where the transition threshold lies.  The Snap point between allowable pitch deviation / vibrato and the next scale degree.  I imagine usually somewhere around a quarter-tone, with the Whole Tone scale being one obvious exception.  The transition rate appears to remain the same (hard Autotune).

                … Eventide’s top shelf pitch tracking combined with the ability to drop a Scala file onto a ‘scale’ param knob in Control (or via gen~) and let the non-western & microtonal fun begin …

                I’ll always jump on this bandwagon.  Granted, easier to implement in synthesizers.  So much you can do, even using ‘normal’ intervals.  Sell it as ‘per-note detuning’, and the historical accuracy & exotica sneak in through the back door.

                https://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/

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