Assigning freeze to hot switch- Space

[elreclusa]

Hello all. Just (finally) picked up Space and I’m keen to get those freeze/hold sounds going on. The manual isn’t clear about how to assign freeze/hold to the hot switch. I’m able to assign inf as a second value with the hot switch following the manual, but not freeze. In the Blackhole plugin there’s a button just for it. Maybe I’m just missing something?

thanks!

 

 

[joecozzi]

On the Blackhole algorithm, when you turn the Feedback knob fully clockwise, do you see it says Freeze on the display?

[elreclusa]

Nope. When I max the remix knob, it displays INF though?

[elreclusa]

FXMix. Not remix. Autocorrect fail.

[joecozzi]

What version of the Space software are you on?

[elreclusa]

Not sure. How do I find out?

[joecozzi]

To Enter/Exit System Mode
Press and hold the Encoder and Right Footswitch simultaneously for a few seconds to enter and exit the System Mode. Upon entering System Mode, you’re at the top-level menu selection. The Left and Right
Footswitch LEDs will flash RED continuously to remind you that you’re in this special mode.

Go into the Utility menu and you’ll find the serial number option.

[elreclusa]

Here are the SN and SW versions screenshot.

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[joecozzi]

I recommend updating your Space to the latest version using the Eventide Device Manager.

[elreclusa]

I believe I did via the auto updater last night. Once that’s done, how do I assign Freeze to the hot switch? Thanks!

[joecozzi]

To program Freeze on Blackhole, switch to Play mode by holding down the third footswitch for a few seconds. Press and hold the Middle Footswitch (HotSwitch) and turn the Feedback (FX Mix) parameter fully clockwise until you see Freeze on the display. This will be the sound you’ll hear when the HotSwitch RED LED is lit. While in program mode, the HotSwitch LED may flash either GREEN or RED depending on the state of the HotSwitch but it is the RED LED state that is the HotSwitch programmed sound. The GREEN LED indicates that the parameter settings are those of the original Preset values and that the HotSwitch has been programmed and will change the effect when pressed.

Note: You must save the Preset to store the HotSwitch settings.

To clear HotSwitch programming, press and hold the Middle Footswitch (HotSwitch) pressed and press and release the Encoder. The display will show [HOTSW CLEAR]. When HotSwitch programming is cleared, the HotSwitch will have no effect on parameter values and the
HotSwitch LED will be off.

[monk303]

By the way, I didn’t find it anywhere either, which means that when the hot switch option is enabled and you press the middle and right switch at the same time and hold them, the message No Tuna appears, what is this? I couldn’t find it anywhere, please explain

[elreclusa]

Thank you! I’ll give it a try as soon as I’m able.

monk303 weird, but I’m not sure I understand. That said, Space is a pretty deep box that I’ve barely had half an hour with.

 

I’m sure once I’ve had time to get cozy with it, it will become a lot easier but immediately user friendly/ intuitive, this pedal kinda isn’t. Easy to get great sounds from but programming feels…not easy. At least not out of the box. Still dig it though!

[elreclusa]

Is the Feedback Freeze function supposed to go into self-oscillation, like a delay would?

It seems to for me, and I was expecting more of a hold kind of freeze, like the Blackhole Plugin, or the Adrian Utley Space video a while back. What I’m getting swells into a mess relatively quickly. It’s probably user error, but am I missing something? The manual is sadly inadequate about the feedback freeze function.

Any help would be appreciated.

[brock]

elreclusa wrote:

Is the Feedback Freeze function supposed to go into self-oscillation, like a delay would? It seems to for me, and I was expecting more of a hold kind of freeze, like the Blackhole Plugin, or the Adrian Utley Space video a while back. What I’m getting swells into a mess relatively quickly. It’s probably user error, but am I missing something? The manual is sadly inadequate about the feedback freeze function. Any help would be appreciated.

That sounds more like an INFINITE (INF) setting.  It is very close in proximity to FREEZE, so it’s easy to map to INF inadvertently.

Bottom Line:

• INF leaves your input connected to layer each next note on top of one other.
• FREEZE re-routes your input away from the engine, and sustains whatever note / chord / buffer at the moment of capture.
• You can continue to play your ‘dry’ input over the top of the FREEZE tone.

Here is a snip from the Space 4.0x Release Notes that goes into more details:

https://www.eventideaudio.com/forums/topic/freeze-function-like-eh-superego-on-h9/#post-147832

[elreclusa]

I’ll continue messing around with it, but so far it seems that, despite being set to “freeze” and not “inf”, my Space is still behaving as though it’s set to “inf”. Curious.

[elreclusa]

Yep- my Space is definitely doing what should be “inf” when it’s set to “freeze”, at least with the Blackhole preset. Beats me.

[elreclusa]

*crickets*

[tbskoglund]

Sorry to hear you are still having issues. Can you please clarify a few things?

1. What FW is installed on your Space? I do not see a screenshot of this as you mentioned in an earlier comment
2. Are you using a HotSwitch to engage Freeze, or are you turning the knob to the max value to engage Freeze?
3. If the pedal is displaying “Freeze” but it still sounds like “inf” can you try turning the knob further clockwise, and does that change anything?

 

[elreclusa]

Thanks for responding and sorry for the delayed response.

The FW is the most recent, 5.whatever.

I am using the HotSwitch. When trying to assign it, I’m holding the HS down and turning the knob to “feedback frz”.

Haven’t tried 3, but I will.

I’ve noticed that some factory presets the freeze function works, others it does the weird issue I’ve been describing.

Also, it never sounds as smooth as, say, the Adrian Utley video here :

https://www.google.com/search?q=adrian+utley+space&oq=adrian+utley+space&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQIxgn0gEJNTkyNWowajE1qAIIsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=Adrian%20Utley%20(Portishead,May%2017%2C%202016.

I’m no Ade, but I’m no slouch either. I’m using a near-identical guitar and not-dissimilar amp as him. Not exclusively, but I’m a huge nerd and fan of Adrian’s so naturally I had to try to replicate the sounds of this video first, at least as a reference point to start from.

That may be that I need to adjust other parameters alongside using freeze though? It tends to sound short and a bit glitchy, whether I hold the HS down or give it a quick click into freeze.

I’m determined to sort this out! No offense, but I tend to use a logidy EPSi for most reverb- pretty tough to beat good IRs. That said, it doesn’t do reeeeeeeeally long decay (though 6 seconds is usually more than enough) nor hold/freeze. As convolution reverbs tend to be, it’s not very adjustable either. Space sounds really good, though, and can do a few things the EPSi doesn’t. Obviously, just based on the video linked above, it can be made to sound amazing. I just need some help sorting it out. One thing it isn’t is intuitive, for me at least.

[brock]

elreclusa wrote:

… When trying to assign it, I’m holding the HS down and turning the knob to “feedback frz”…

While this can be done on the pedal itself, it can be easier to navigate & see exactly what you’re doing using the Eventide Device Manager app.

https://www.eventideaudio.com/software/device-manager/

… I’ve noticed that some factory presets the freeze function works, others it does the weird issue I’ve been describing. …

I’ve found that – at least with the H9 – HotSwitch assignments can be stubbornly persistent in the Factory presets.  I have had better luck making a copy of the preset, stripping out the  HotSwitch mappings, and saving it as a new preset.  There were times when I needed to do that several times to ‘unstick / stick’ the  old / new assignments.

…Also, it never sounds as smooth as, say, the Adrian Utley video here …

He does engage the HotSwitch a split-second after picking a note, to ‘capture’ the FREEZE at a high point in the reverb’s decay cycle (which is key).  If you have the room for it, an expression pedal can be the smoothest option.  Continuous control from some level of decay – through freezing it – and back again for the ‘fadeout’.  But technique goes a long way for HotSwitch-ing in & out of FREEZE.

… at least as a reference point to start from. That may be that I need to adjust other parameters alongside using freeze though? It tends to sound short and a bit glitchy, whether I hold the HS down or give it a quick click into freeze…

Well, GIGO.  You are capturing a slice of the reverb, not your input signal.  If you trigger too soon, and that moment in time grabs part of your pick attack, then you will freeze some of those inharmonic partials.  Trigger too late, and you’ll grab a weaker part of the reverb decay, which may / may not be modulating on the fade.  Or sound a little metallic in its final decay.

It’s an especially important point if you’re using something with pre-delay,  Blackhole anti-Gravity or Reverse Reverb.  You need to adjust your footswitching technique to capture a strong portion of the reverb.  Meaning you have to hesitate a bit before engaging the HotSwitch.

…I’m determined to sort this out! … That said, it doesn’t do reeeeeeeeally long decay (though 6 seconds is usually more than enough) nor hold/freeze …

Yes, 50-100 seconds in Space can often seem like a freeze parameter in its own right.

Space sounds really good, though … it can be made to sound amazing. I just need some help sorting it out. One thing it isn’t is intuitive, for me at least.

Maybe not so helpful at this point, but I went down a real rabbit hole with all of the freeze variations in the H9 in the past.  I’ve posted many, many examples on this forum in a visual tutorial format , and most of those will apply to the Space algorithms.

[elreclusa]

Thanks! I will try your suggestions. I think a lot of it is learning curve, and that I’m used to the EHX Freeze pedal and how it works, and Space is a little different.

[ndeshpande]

In order for a signal to truly freeze, you also have to turn off modulation. When assigning the hot switch, set either mod depth or mod rate to 0; the Blackhole plugins set Mod Depth to 0 when Freeze is selected.

If your input does not mute, I encourage that as well, to insure the frozen reverb tail does not start overloading. The output is not stably bounded if you freeze and keep playing into the frozen reverb.

[elreclusa]

I’m a bit confused, in that when I freeze in the Blackhole plugin, it doesn’t zero out mod depth? It freezes the current mod depth and feedback settings, but their “knob” positions don’t change.

I’m not sure what you mean by/how to mute the input. Playing over the frozen reverb is kinda the point, though. In that Adrian Utley video linked above, he plays over the frozen reverb to wonderful, lush effect. The frozen reverb tail overloading is pretty much exactly what it sounds like it’s doing when I encounter this problem, though.

I think, as noted above, technique may have a bit to do with getting Space to do what I’m trying to accomplish, but it seems there’s more to it than that.

Blackhole is a good example though, comparing the plugin to Space- the HotSwitch freeze out of the box is definitely not behaving the same way as clicking freeze in the plugin, which is what I was expecting as I’ve been using the plugin for ages.

[brock]

elreclusa wrote:

… I’m used to the EHX Freeze pedal and how it works, and Space is a little different.

I still have a Freeze here, more often now, I use a SuperEgo..  This thread linked below might be helpful.  It was one of my forays into emulating the Freeze pedal (which is now rehoused inside a sustain pedal, dumping that hard-click switch)..

The SpaceTime entries there won’t apply, but you might pick up something from the rest.  Scroll down far enough, and you’ll see some attempts at resolving HotSwitch issues.

https://www.eventideaudio.com/forums/topic/freeze-pedal-simulations/

[elreclusa]

Thanks Brock! I haven’t had a lot of free time to delve further, but I will.

[ndeshpande]

elreclusa wrote:

I’m a bit confused, in that when I freeze in the Blackhole plugin, it doesn’t zero out mod depth? It freezes the current mod depth and feedback settings, but their “knob” positions don’t change. I’m not sure what you mean by/how to mute the input. Playing over the frozen reverb is kinda the point, though. In that Adrian Utley video linked above, he plays over the frozen reverb to wonderful, lush effect. The frozen reverb tail overloading is pretty much exactly what it sounds like it’s doing when I encounter this problem, though. I think, as noted above, technique may have a bit to do with getting Space to do what I’m trying to accomplish, but it seems there’s more to it than that. Blackhole is a good example though, comparing the plugin to Space- the HotSwitch freeze out of the box is definitely not behaving the same way as clicking freeze in the plugin, which is what I was expecting as I’ve been using the plugin for ages.

Per the Space manual, page 19:

9 of the 12 algorithms have an [INF] and/or [FREEZE] option on some of the control knobs. Each algorithm imparts its own flavor to the [FREEZE] function but in general [FREEZE] puts the reverb in infinite decay mode while locking out the reverb input. The dry signal is then run in parallel with the frozen reverb allowing you to solo over your frozen reverb. [INF] is, you guessed it, just an infinite decay, although special care is taken to ensure the volume does not explode as a result. Because [INF] and [FREEZE] are controlled by Parameter knobs, both can be controlled via the HotSwitch, Expression Pedal, or MIDI.

And from the Blackhole (stereo) plugin manual, page 7:

Sets the reverb time to infinite, sets Feedback and Mod Depth to ”Freeze”, and mutes the input, effectively freezing the audio in the reverb buffer. Making changes to some controls when Freeze is active can allow for interesting sound design.

These might help you wrap your head around FREEZE on Space a bit more, and clarify my “mute the input” comments – the distinction between INF and FREEZE is an important one.

[elreclusa]

ndeshpande wrote:

And from the Blackhole (stereo) plugin manual, page 7:

Sets the reverb time to infinite, sets Feedback and Mod Depth to ”Freeze”, and mutes the input, effectively freezing the audio in the reverb buffer. Making changes to some controls when Freeze is active can allow for interesting sound design.

These might help you wrap your head around FREEZE on Space a bit more, and clarify my “mute the input” comments – the distinction between INF and FREEZE is an important one.

This is exactly how the plugin works for me, but on Space it seems to be behaving differently. Set to “feedback freeze”, it seems to be behaving as though it were set to “inf”- it’s not muting the input.

I’m finding that this isn’t across the board, but on some presets it does this, others it seems to work as it should, though I admit my technique using it needs practice.

I haven’t had much free time to delve further the last few days, but I will and see what I can find. Thanks for your help, it’s very much appreciated.

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