CC control of H90 Insert bypass / active

[mrspikesir]

Hi, I’m having an issue MIDI controlling the insert active / bypass state (MIDI controller is an RJM GT16).

I can set everything up using a momentary CC that toggles the active / bypass state, but the problem is that it is literally a toggle – so eg, if I bypass the Insert whilst using one preset, if I then switch to a different preset in which I want the default to be that the insert is active, this doesn’t happen; the insert stays bypassed until I send a second momentary CC message.

Which is a massive pain – I’ve set up a noise gate as insert #1, which I use only for high gain patches, and I want it active for any patch that’s high gain. Given that noise gates, being what they are, can cut off sustain, I need to be able to bypass the gate on occasion – so the easiest way of doing that, you’d have thought, is being able to send a CC message that tells the H90 whether the insert is active or bypass. But as explained, that doesn’t work. Meaning the only option I have is to waste lots of storage in my H90 by creating duplicate programs – one version without gate, the other with.

Is this something I’m doing wrong ? Or is it a functionality issue ?

Any suggestions gratefully received. Thanks.

[joecozzi]

mrspikesir wrote:

if I bypass the Insert whilst using one preset, if I then switch to a different preset in which I want the default to be that the insert is active, this doesn’t happen; the insert stays bypassed until I send a second momentary CC message.

 May I have some clarification here? How are you switching presets? Are you doing it manually? Did you mean switching Programs?

[mrspikesir]

I’m using an RJM GT16 foot-controller to MIDI control all aspects of my rig, including calling up programs on the H90 and controlling various parameters with an expression pedal. Generally, it’s seamless and works like a charm.

However, I have a noise gate in the H90’s Insert #1, which I only want to use at certain times – invariably when I’ve switched to a high gain channel on my amp (but not, for example, when I’m on the clean channel).

So I set up MIDI CC10 to control the bypass/active state of Insert #1. But, it only acts as a momentary toggle – ie. whenever I send cc10=127 from the RJM GT16 Insert #1 will change state, whether that’s active > bypass, or bypass > active. What it isn’t is an ‘active / bypass’ selector – ie. for most MIDI controllable pedals, if you send cc10=0 (or whatever cc you’ve programmed) the pedal will switch to bypass, and if you send cc10=127 it switches to active. But not for the H90 inserts, it seems.

The reason it’s a problem for me is that right now the only option I have is to create duplicates of every Program – one with the noise gate in Insert #1, and one without. Which is a pain, partly because it’s extra work and complication, but also it means I’m eating up the H90’s memory by doubling up every program. Hence wanting to be able to simply send a CC to determine whether the noise gate / Insert #1 should or shouldn’t be active for any program.

Hope that’s clearer . Thanks.

[tbskoglund]

We plan on adding the option for Insert Active and Insert Bypass MIDI CC commands in a future release. Sorry for the inconvenience.

For now, you should be able to get around this by saving your Programs with the insert either active or bypassed when appropriate.

[mrspikesir]

Hi, thanks for clarifying.

What you describe is what I’m currently having to do, but it’s a massive pain because (a) it makes programming more complicated (in terms of the all the different PC’s I have to program into my MIDI foot-controller), and (b) it doubles up the Programs in my H90 (one version of each Program with insert engaged, one without), which wastes a huge amount of memory.

Do you know the timeline for addressing this functionality ?

Thanks.

[tbskoglund]

Sorry, I do not have a timeline for this feature.

Why can’t you use the Insert CC toggle on/off instead of creating duplicate programs with the insert on/off?

[mrspikesir]

I can’t use the toggle on/off precisely because it’s a toggle (!).

This means that every time I send CC=127 to the H90, the Insert either switches On if it was Off, or switches Off it was On (ie. whatever state it was in as a result of the last CC message, it then switches to the other state when it next receives CC=127). CC=0 is ignored because it’s a momentary toggle (so it only responds to CC=127).

Which means I can’t program a patch on my pedalboard (an RJM Mastermind) where the Insert is set to be Off for that patch; similarly, I can’t program a patch on my pedalboard where the Insert is set to be On for that patch. Because whenever my pedalboard sends this CC toggle to the H90, it’s simply telling the Insert to switch On if it was Off, or Off it was On.

Whereas most MIDI controllable pedals will accept a command that says ‘bypass if CC=0’ and ‘active if CC=127’. In which case, I can program that CC for each patch on my pedalboard so it sends CC=127 if I want the Insert active, or sends cc=0 if I want the Insert bypassed. Every other MIDI controllable pedal in my rig works perfectly like this (Strymon Compradre, Boss EQ, Prostage Wahrytone and RJM Overture).

 

[Herr Mosa]

I think you’re able to save the patch in a specific insert-state, on or off. and when you send the midi-command it’ll toggle to the opposite state. So where’s the problem?

[tbskoglund]

Yes, what Herr Mosa mentioned is how I would suggest handling this.

If you have a Program that you want the insert on, save that Program with the insert on. If you want the insert off, save that Program with the insert off. At times when you want the opposite state after loading the Program, use the CC to toggle the opposite state. If possible, you can program your MIDI controller to only send the high CC value for the insert active/byass action.

Otherwise, I can let you know if the momentary active/bypass feature is added in a future update.

 

[mrspikesir]

Yes, that is more or less what I’m having to do – ie. save two versions of each Program.

But my point is that’s wasteful (it doubles up the number of Programs I need) and makes life more complicated (I have to call up different versions of the same Program depending on whether I want the Insert active or bypassed, which adds complexity to how I have to organise PC commands on my foot controller).

This is the first time I’ve come across a MIDI enabled device with this limitation, which is a shame given how incredible the H90 is in almost every other regard.

So it would be great if Eventide can bring this particular functionality in line with other companies at some point in the near future.

[tbskoglund]

To clarify, I am not suggesting to save two versions of the Program. I am suggesting to save one version of the Program with the desired insert state (active or bypassed). Then, while the Program is loaded, if you would like the insert to be in the opposite state, you can use the CC toggle. It’s not necessary to save duplicate Programs just to change the insert state.

Regardless, I understand why your request is a useful feature. I just want to make sure I am communicating to you properly that there is an alternative that does not require saving duplicate Programs, it just requires using your MIDI controller a bit differently.

[mrspikesir]

Thanks.

 

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