Configuring H8000FW for dual-stereo using ADAT

[Stephen Pruitt]

Hi all. . .

I’m having a dickens of a time getting my H8000FW into a dual-stereo (two completely different stereo effects) using ADAT connections.

This is, however, why I bought the machine and need it work this way.

There does not appear to be an ADAT dual-stereo set-up configuration.

Can anyone out there help me to figure this out?

Please email me at never2latestudios@yahoo.com if you have an H8000FW and know how to do this.  I’m MORE than willing to pay for the help.

Thanks.

Stephen Pruitt

Kansas City

[nickrose]

If you use the "ADAT 8 Track A,B"" factory routing, this will give you dual 4 channel routing. TYou can ignore channels 3,4 on ech to give stereo. You may need to mess with the input routing to pick off the correct ADAT channels.

[Stephen Pruitt]

Hey there, Nick. . . I appreciate your post.

Would you be available for a phone consult as I do this?

I AM willing to pay for your time.

Thanks much!

Stephen Pruitt

[nickrose]

Sorry – right now I am travelling in Europe and not often near a phone. When I get back to the US, (in a week), I'll send you step by step instructions.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

Well, that would be great.  But I’m guessing this Ph.D. is too stupid to do things without hand-holding.

I really appreciate the help!

Stephen

[Stephen Pruitt]

Hey there, Nick. . .

Please do let me know when you’re back in town.

I really want to love this machine. . . and I’m certain I will if I can get it to work properly.

Thanks.

Stephen Pruitt

[ThreeFingersOfLove]

Hi Stephen,

I have just used ADAT to send audio from an RME Fireface 800 ADAT outputs to the H8000-FW. With a sampling rate of 96 KHz and since ADAT uses multiplexing, channels 1,2 and 5,6 carry the same audio signal. Also channels 3,4 and 7,8 again carry the same audio signal. It is my understanding that, because of the inherent limitation in the ADAT format, you can only use 1 channel of ADAT when using 96 KHz, since the H8000-FW only has 1 ADAT output. If you use 48 KHz however, you can process two channels, i.e. ADAT Channels 1, 2 will be processed from DSP A, ADAT channels 3,4 will be processed from DSP B. The processed outputs appear at the ADAT outputs (and also Firewire and AES). I have included a snapshot of my routing for you to get an idea.

Does this help?

Regards,

Yannis

[nickrose]

Hi Stephen

I have attached a document that takes you through a routing setup process, and hopefully, this, along with Mr.Finger's comments, will set you on the route to Routing Comprehension.

 

If you still find it confusing, I would recommend User Manual immersion. It is probably easier to understand things using the Routing Utility than using the H8000 front panel.

 

[ThreeFingersOfLove]

Nick,

when using 96KHz, are ADAT inputs 1, 2 muxed with 5, 6 by default? I asked this because when sending an ADAT signal at 96 KHz from the FF800 (1st port) to the H8000FW, the H8000FW responds at channels 1, 2 and 5, 6 (with no messing around with the Routing). Please have a look at the attached pic, it’s getting a bit confusing.

Thanks,

Yannis

[nickrose]

ADAT as we know it is designed to work at 48kHz or below. This is due to speed restrictions in the optical link.

 

There is a 96K version called S-MUX, which is not extensively used. Here, each 96K channel is split across two ADAT channels, giving the results you observe. The H8000FW will automatically select S-MUX for rates above 48K.

 

 

[ThreeFingersOfLove]

Hi Nick,

it seems that, above 48KHz, in order to send a stereo channel the H8000-FW uses outputs 1, 2, 5, 6 and not 1, 2, 3, 4. To send two channels… well it can’t since it only has 1 ADAT port 🙁

Maybe a nice idea would be for you guys to update the add-on card with the Firewire? Another pair of ADAT ports plus Thunderbolt and we are good to go?

Just a suggestion 🙂

Yannis

[nickrose]

ThreeFingersOfLove wrote:

To send two channels… well it can't since it only has 1 ADAT port

Just to set things straight, and probably covering things everybody knows:

A normal ADAT at 48K will send 8 channels. At 96K, it becomes S-MUX, and only sends 4 channels. Since each of these is split across 2 ADAT "channels", it is hard to pick them out.

 

ADAT is becoming more and more obsolete as time goes on, so we don't have plans to add more.

 

 

[ThreeFingersOfLove]

Nick,

I need to pester you again about this. From the Routing app I use preset 12 ADAT A-B. At 96 KHz, sending two channels (a stereo signal) of ADAT occupy channels 1, 2, 5, 6 on the H8000-FW. The second stereo channel (again at 96 KHz) occupy channels 3, 4, 7, 8. Is this normal?

Does the same hold true for ADAT outputs, i.e. the first stereo ADAT output channels occupies 1, 2, 5, 6 and the second 3, 4, 7, 8??

Thanks

 

[nickrose]

ThreeFingersOfLove wrote:

I need to pester you again about this. From the Routing app I use preset 12 ADAT A-B. At 96 KHz, sending two channels (a stereo signal) of ADAT occupy channels 1, 2, 5, 6 on the H8000-FW. The second stereo channel (again at 96 KHz) occupy channels 3, 4, 7, 8. Is this normal?

Does the same hold true for ADAT outputs, i.e. the first stereo ADAT output channels occupies 1, 2, 5, 6 and the second 3, 4, 7, 8??

Hi Yannis

I'm afraid that the answer is "I don't know for certain." Almost no-one uses ADAT at 96K, and we no longer have any equipment here to test it.

My documentation says that 4 channels are spread sequentially across the 8 ADAT slots, so channel 1 is ADAT 1,2, channel 2 is ADAT 3,4, etc. The answer to your question really depends on what you are calling the channels. The ADAT outputs will be the same as the inputs – if you are using it in this way, it should be easy enough to confirm.

Hope this helps

nick

 

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

I have pretty much given up on the H8000FW.  I’m probably going to sell the stupid thing.

Nothing I have done has given me two stereo ins and two stereo out.  And there is nothing wrong with my ADAT set-up and I’m only using 44.1 signals.

As far as I’m concerned, it has been a complete waste of money.

Stephen

[nickrose]

Stephen Pruitt wrote:

I have pretty much given up on the H8000FW.  I'm probably going to sell the stupid thing.

Nothing I have done has given me two stereo ins and two stereo out.  And there is nothing wrong with my ADAT set-up and I'm only using 44.1 signals.

As far as I'm concerned, it has been a complete waste of money.

Stephen

I'm sorry that you are unhappy with your H8000. Some months ago I had suggested that the "ADAT 8 Track A,B" routing would do what you wanted. Since you did not reply otherwise, I had to assume that this was the case.

It should be noted that the H8000 is a complex unit, and may well not be for everyone.

 

[nickrose]

Hi Yannis – I'm maybe a little confused myself. I set up an H8000, so that the main outputs feed the ADAT, and the inputs come from the ADAT, which I can monitor on the front panel meters. I then drive the outputs in parallel from Oscillator 440 at 96K.

If I adjust OUT1 Level, the meters show that this affects Inputs 1 and 5. Similarly, OUT2 Level affects 2 and 6. Etcetera. OUT5-8 Levels have no effect.

This suggests to me that ADAT sends 1 to 4 are active, and that Inputs 5-8 are aliases (copies) of inputs 1-4.

I still believe that the actual ADAT channels used are those mentioned in my previous post, but this at least tells you how to set up the H8000 routing (use 1-4 for your 4 channels).

 

[ThreeFingersOfLove]

Hi Nick,

 

thanks for the swift reply.

nickrose wrote:

If I adjust OUT1 Level, the meters show that this affects Inputs 1 and 5. Similarly, OUT2 Level affects 2 and 6. Etcetera. OUT5-8 Levels have no effect.

This suggests to me that ADAT sends 1 to 4 are active, and that Inputs 5-8 are aliases (copies) of inputs 1-4.

Well, it’s the same in my system then. Which is to say that in 96 KHz operation the H8000FW muxes the first mono signal from Logic to 1 and 5.

So:

1. First mono signal at 96 KHz goes to 1, 5

2. Second mono signal at 96 KHz goes to 2, 6

3. Third mono signal at 96 KHz goes to 3, 7

4. Fourth mono signal at 96 KHz goes to 4, 8

So like the ADAT protocol specifies that in frequencies above 48KHz, multiplexing takes place, the number of channels is halfed and all is good. I can confirm this from Logic and I can also confirm this from the front meters in the H8000FW. However, I use the ADAT output on the H8000FW to return the signals to Logic and nothing happens at any channel. When choosing to monitor the outputs from the front panel, only channels 1 and 2 are lit but still no sound.

Ideally, I would like to use two configurations:

When tracking: Dual Stereo plus a stereo signal IO from ADAT

When mixing: Dual IO from ADAT.

However Dual Analog Stereo plus a stereo IO signal from ADAT seems impossible because the first four main inputs to the DSPs are always occupied by the analog IOs which leaves no choice for ADAT at 96KHz given the above multiplexing. Bummer… So it’s either 48KHz or no go… 🙁

At least, when mixing, I’d like to be able to send and receive all 4 channels from ADAT. The A-B ADAT preset (number 12) doesn’t seem to work for some reason… I am going to test it with preset 19 and will tell you if I have any luck.

Thanks,

Yannis

[paddyryan]

Well i struggled with this today wiithout the benefit of Firewire and LET ME TELL YOU i had a bad day!

Bottom line, FORGET about trying to use this machine with ADAT at 96k. Just forget it. Seriously….dont! If you taek that out of the equation, it becomes manageable. 

Just set ADAT 1-4 to Processor A input, and ADAT 5-8 to precessor B input, set ADAT output to main outs. Send your mixer Adat feed for A to ADAT 1 and 2, and the Adat feed for B to ADAT 5 and 6.

Processor A will ouput on ADAT output channels 1 and 2, and BN will outpout channles 5 and 6, so those a rethe channle you are lookig for coming back in to your mixer (or whatever).

And once you get it working, dont think you are an expert adn will be able to do 96k. Just DONT!

I dont think a user interface gets any worse than the front panel of this machine. But BOY it sounds good,. 

[t_tangent]

Disappointing news then I guess. Funnily enough I have just been trying to do exactly the same thing today. in order to use some gear that is specifically recommended to use at 96kHz to get the best from it, and thought I would set up the studio as such just to see how it goes. Normally I have the H8000FW set up for 48kHz via ADAT and that works well so I figured since the H8000FW supports 96kHz, but it doesnt seems work with ADAT, or else we are all doing it wrong.

So I configured the sample rate settings on my SC scope card to 96kHz, and set it to S-Mux which allows for 4 channels at 96kHz. H8000FW did sync to the external clock, but then when I tried to route a stereo source to ADAT on H8000FW, it shows that there is a signal on channels 1 and 5, so I know the signal is getting into the H8000FW but obviously the routing on H8000FW is not set correctly. I tried changing the adat routing but then got into all sorts of complications and cannot seem to figure out the correct routing now. I tried using the Eventide Routing Utility but that now keeps crashing half way through probably due to some incorrect routing internally.

So I just wanted to ask if any user here, or Eventide support, what would be the most simple routing just to get 1 stereo I/O at 96kHz. Lets say just routing to  processor A, and then out to ADAT.

I saw this and another thread when trying to get this working but it looks like this has not worked for anyone who has tried, so I would appreciate some help to find a working solution, or just how to connect the routing correctly. So on the Routing Utility from ADAT  In to Main In, then from there to DSP A, then DSP A to Main Out and finally from Main Out to ADAT Out

 

Thanks for any help with this

 

 

[paddyryan]

The ADAT MUX protocol is that is uses two ADAT channels IN A ROW for each audio channel, so on devices that work properly, you simply set up the i/o to odd numbered channels. (ie 1,3,5,7). The fact that we are seeing simultaneous input signal on channels 1 and 5 makes me wonder if this is the root of our problem. It is not related to your routing settings on the H8000…its just the way the h8000 is responding to the split signal (the wrong way.)

If things worked the way they should, you would merely assign ADAT 1 and 3 as inputs to Processor A, and 5 and 7 to processor b, and ditto with the outputs. This is how it works on every other device that supports 96k ADAT. I am looking at the Hosa Technology CDL-313 – Bi-Directional Coaxial S/PDIF to XLR AES/EBU box. I have two spdif digital i/o pairs on my mixer…this set up might work so I can have my whole studio at 96k. I wonder if the H8000 will work with the AES i/o at 96k….anyone using it?

Unfortunately the H8000 is pretty much dead in terms of support so Im pretty sure we will never see an update that will make it work with ADAT at 96k

[nickrose]

It is my understanding that the H8000 does support S-MUX operation over ADAT at 96K. But, because this is so rarely used, it is possible that it has got broken and nobody noticed it. There may also be non-obvious routing issues.

When I can find a suitable source I'll give it a try and report back. Probably next week.

 

[nickrose]

OK – it seems to work fine.

I'm feeding the H8000FW to/from a UA Apollo 8, using the factory "ADAT A->B" routing on internal 96K clock.. I'm running "Oscillator 440" on dspA and "Thru" on dspB.

The 4 ADAT input channels come in on channels 1,2,3,4 and are mirrored on 5,6,7,8. This is shown on the input meters.

The 4 ADAT output channels are fed from 5,6,7,8. This can be proven by varying the digital output volumes.

I'll accept that the mirrored input channels may be confusing, but it is probably out of a desire to avoid "empty air."

Similarly, the use of the higher output channels is odd, but presumably there were reasons.- probably to keep the analog outputs free.

If you are having S-MUX trouble, and have the time and interest, please set up your unit as above and tell me in detail what you see.

 

 

[paddyryan]

The ADAT A>B routings is where all 8 inputs to got DSP A, and the from there through DSP B, in series. 

It is not the same as dual stereo where half the channels go to DSAP and and the other half to DSP B, ie. seperate feeds to and from each DSP. That is what we have been trying to do. 

 

[paddyryan]

just to be clear, the dual stero setup works fine at 48k. It should be as simple as changing the clock rate and the H8000 simply adapts as necessary to make it work. 

Another aside here…. if I have the H8000 kooed up and runnign at 48k, when i change the external clock rate to 96k, the h8000 crashes (tells me to power down)

 

[nickrose]

For dual stereo on ADAT at 96K you will want something like the following (note the use of ADAT channels 5-8):

[t_tangent]

Thanks for the replies, and the routing diagram is very useful. I will try this and the other routing you suggested earlier as soon as I can and will report back on my results.I haven’t experienced crashing of the H8000FW when switching to 96 from 48 like paddyryan has. Paddy, what audio interface are you using, and do you also have firewire and AES/EBU connections to your DAW. DId you try switching to internal clock and then changing to 96kHz? Sometimes working backwards is the only way to find out what is causing the problem. Would be good to hear if you have any success with what Nickrose suggests. Good luck.

[paddyryan]

im going away for a few weeks so wont be able to try out stuff until im back.

 

Im hoping that someone has had success in gettgin dual stero working over ADAt at 96k in the meantime and can share their success!

[t_tangent]

I was able to get the H8000FW to work in 96kHz via ADAT using the image posted by nickrose. I was also able to vary the internal connections, routing DSP A 1-4 to DSP B 1-4 and then route DSP B 1-4 to Main Out 1-4. So thanks for that Nick. I am using Sonic-Core Scope 7 on some older Scope PCI cards, and used the Scope S-MUX modules to route I/O 1 & 2 to the H8000FW and back again, as a Send Return FX routing. The samplerate clock is slaved to Scope as the master clock, via ADAT and I can also switch to Wordclock. So yes 96kHz does work here via ADAT with the correct routing setup, and with the obvious limitations such as only dual stereo I/O, and increased use of resources. I think 48kHz is more suited to my general needs, but its useful to know that 96kHz does work with the correct routings amd it will be worth looking into using 96kHz in some projects. Paddyryan, hope this info helps.

[jmfreeland]

This worked for me as well. Amazing and thank you. Blended post-UA Ox Box, there’s nothing better that I’ve ever found.

[dhsimmon]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I am having the same trouble as a bunch of other folks had earlier.

I would like to use my H8000FW over ADAT as two parallel effects units, A and B, at 44.1Khz.

 

 

What should settings should I use on the 3 key Setup screens: Inputs, DSP, and Outputs for each of the two processors A and B.

I don’t use Firewire, so I’d like to be able to simply do this from the H8000FW front panel.

I cannot understand the relevant sections in the manual, nor can I understand the diagrams that were posted earlier on this thread, so I’d appreciate if someone could just tell me what to do so that I don’t have to learn about the inner workings of this machine. 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[nickrose]

The H8000FW is a sophisticated and complex unit, which is not for everyone. In particular, the routing arrangements can prove hard to understand.

If the User Manual is not helpful, I would suggest you try the H8000 Routing Utility, which gives a more visual representation.

https://www.eventideaudio.com/support/product/671/installers

Alternatively you could try the Factory Routings, such as "ADAT 8 Track A,B".

 

 

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