Eventides not Returning MIDI to Signal Path

[brianyaw]

I’ve searched all through the board and can’t find something that hits precisely what I”m doing or solves my issue. I am using the 4 factor pedals off of a switcher via a MIDI Solutions Quadra Through. The chain goes as follows:

Switcher MIDI out to Quadra Through In

QT1 to Timefactor MIDI In

QT2 to MODfactor MIDI In

QT3 to Space MIDI In

QT4 to Pitchfactor In

The problem is that when I change a patch on my switcher, I can see the change take effect in each of the factor pedals. BUT, the sound of the guitar is unaffected. No delay is applied, no reverb, etc (I know that the switcher ipatches are setup correctly.)

I’ve tried MIDIOutput in system menu to XMT and MERGE…no joy

I saw a post in which a user was told to put the connections from the Quadra Through into the OutThru port…that didn’t work either…and…I didn’t expect to. 

 

Can you hlep me understand what I’m doing wrong?

 

Brian

[joecozzi]

brianyaw wrote:

The problem is that when I change a patch on my switcher, I can see the change take effect in each of the factor pedals. BUT, the sound of the guitar is unaffected. No delay is applied, no reverb.

Are you sure the pedals are being activated? It is possible to load presets in a bypassed state either because the presets were saved that way or because you’re sending the pedals a bypass command along with the preset change.

Also, you’ve explained how your MIDI is connected but what about your audio? Are you daisy chaining the pedals together?

[nickrose]

Make sure the red "active" led is on when you expect to hear the effect. If not, it is as Joe says.

 

[brianyaw]

Thank-you so much, gents, for getting back so quickly. They aren’t daisy chained because I understood that was not necessary when using a quadra through; in that, essentially, the signal would be transmitted to the eventides and sent back to the switcher over the same 5 pin MIDI cable. I’m brand new to MIDI and the user guide has been very difficult to understand…and…I’m certain that’s because I’m so new to the subject. I have a red indicator on the left foot switch and set the RCV CTL to “ACT”. Output in the SystemMIDI is set to Merge. What I think I’m seeing is that the red light is on at the left switch. So, I’m thinking it’s “on” but because of a setting I don’t understand it is not transmitting. I’m sure I’ve done something incorrectly but I don’t know what; can you redirect me?

[joecozzi]

Hi Brian,

Please be aware that MIDI only serves to change parameters and presets on your devices. It does not carry any audio, so you still need to connect your pedals to the switcher and subsequently your amp. I don’t see any cables going into or out of the pedals. This could be why you’re not hearing anything at all.

[brianyaw]

Thank-you, Joe…I didn’t know that!

[brianyaw]

So, I got back on this today (Saturday, 2021.09.25). The setup is as previous with the addition of audio cables to put the Time Factor into loop 7 on my switcher. Same result – no change in my guitar’s tone. I set the RCV CTL to ACT. I understand – and this is kind of a question in my mind; I’m really new to MIDI – that there is a CC value that ties to the “ActiveBypass” change which must be transmitted from the switcher to the Time Factor along with the “Active” (rather than the bypass) value selected in order to activate it. But, I cannot find any reference to what that CC ActiveBypass identifier is and what the value for Active is. I know that I’m trying to do something incredibly simple and can’t understand from the owner’s manual how to do it. Does Eventide maintain a library of how to videos to help with this?

Thanks for all the help,

Brian

[brianyaw]

…a little bit more…I was able to see that, even if I set the pedal to “active”, a continuouschange command was being sent to set it to “Bypass”. So, I went into RCV CTL and setup a an active command as C!. But, I have questions that I hope answers to which will help me send the right CC from the switcher. The owner’s manual has the notation of BND – MIDI Pitch Bend with an associated numeric range of C0 – C99.

What is BND? MIDI Pitch Bend?

Is C0 the condition “Bypass” (Active Off essentially)?

Is C99 the condition “Active”?

Are there numeric values associated the external control destinations listed on page 51 (the list that goes BYP, BK+, BK-, etc…not the KB) and following)? I ask because the switcher requires that I identify the “Active” indicator toggle by a number and then express a numeric that is either “Active” or “Bypass”. Said another way, there are 2 numeric fields one that identifies the toggle and one that tells its condition.

Thank-you for your help,

Brian

[brianyaw]

Thank-you so much for your thoughtful explanations…and….they really help. You asked a couple of things of me: 1) my audio route beginning to end 2) and experiment with it sending MIDI signals while going directly in from guitar and directly out to the amp.

My signal chain is: guitar in via a Mesa Boogie High Wire to switcher; Loop 8 is the Timefactor and, therefore, loop send from the switcher goes into mono in on the TF, mono out on the TF goes to loop 8 return; then the out from the switcher goes to the amp. There is no effects loop on the amplifier.

I used all four factor pedals sequentially for years without a switcher…and…they worked perfectly, couple of repairs needed by Eventide repair shop along the way, but, they worked great. When I bought the switcher, I did as you suggested and connected the MIDI to the TF but went in directly from my guitar and out directly to the amp as a test to begin to get a feel for it. It worked great, so, I went into this with a great deal of confidence.

I’ll work on what you’ve noted above…Brian

[brianyaw]

If I’m restating prior territory, it’s because I can’t find it in the string….I went directly into and out of the TF without the switcher and it worked perfectly. Going directly in and directly out, but, using MIDI to change the TF delay times didn’t affect my tone. Therefore, given where we’ve been, in RCV CTL I set up for destination BYP – C0 and ACT – C1. If I then send C1 – 127 it should make the TF active and, conversely, C0 – 127 would make the TF inactive, correct?

[brianyaw]

YES!! YES!! YES!! I think there is a fault in my TF pedal. Why? I got so frustrated with it that I tried my Space and it worked – twice. Then, I tried my Modfactor and it worked! So, I did a factory reset on Timefactor and tried it clean with a fresh setting in a bank…and…it didn’t work. But, with everything connected and manually changing the effect to a reverse and then back to Vintage with A & B programmed – it worked. And, that was something I was seeing when it was in series and I wasn’t using MIDI on my board. I would always have to shift it to a different effect and then go back to the one I wanted. Given this, would you also conclude that the pedal needs to be looked at?

Thanks again,

Brian

[nickrose]

I think it most likely something at your end, especially if you have a complex MIDI setup, with little personal MIDI experience.

But, if you are convinced that the unit is at fault, and especially if it is still under warranty (no charge), consider sending it in. support@eventide.com.

 

 

[joecozzi]

brianyaw wrote:

The setup is as previous with the addition of audio cables to put the Time Factor into loop 7 on my switcher. Same result – no change in my guitar’s tone.

Can you explain how you are routing audio in your system from beginning to end?

For now, I would simply connect your guitar to the pedal’s input and its output to your amp before you start experimenting with loop switchers. Have success switching the pedal with MIDI commands and be certain the pedal is active before you make more complex connections.

brianyaw wrote:

I set the RCV CTL to ACT. Is there a CC value that ties to the “ActiveBypass” change which must be transmitted from the switcher to the Time Factor along with the “Active” (rather than the bypass) value selected in order to activate it.

In MIDI, when you’re controlling a function assigned to a CC number you have to send along a value with it. As it pertains to ON/OFF type messages, sending a value less than 64 is equal to “OFF,” while a value greater than 64 is considered “ON.” For simplicity’s sake, we recommend sending either a value of “0” (zero) for OFF and 127 for ON.

brianyaw wrote:

But, I cannot find any reference to what that CC ActiveBypass identifier is and what the value for Active is.

Page 52 of the manual states, “ The minimum parameter value will be set when the MIDI CC sends a 0 and the maximum parameter value will be set when the MIDI CC sends 127.”

[joecozzi]

brianyaw wrote:

The owner’s manual has the notation of BND – MIDI Pitch Bend with an associated numeric range of C0 – C99.

What is BND? MIDI Pitch Bend?

MIDI Pitch Bend allows the pedal to receive controller change messages from the pitch wheel of a keyboard or synthesizer, for example.

brianyaw wrote:

Is C0 the condition “Bypass” (Active Off essentially)?

Is C99 the condition “Active”?

I think you’ve misinterpreted what this part of the manual is saying. In short, when selecting an external control source you may either assign it to respond to an external pitch wheel (MIDI Pitch Bend) or you can assign any available function to its own CC number from 0 (zero) to 99. If you choose the latter, you will have to send a value along with the CC#. Depending on the function, you’ll either send it a value from 0-127 or if it’s an ON/OFF type command, 0 for OFF and 127 for on.

brianyaw wrote:

Are there numeric values associated the external control destinations listed on page 51 (the list that goes BYP, BK+, BK-, etc…not the KB) and following)? I ask because the switcher requires that I identify the “Active” indicator toggle by a number and then express a numeric that is either “Active” or “Bypass”. Said another way, there are 2 numeric fields one that identifies the toggle and one that tells its condition.

Sounds like this is related to what I’ve discussed above, but I recommend finding a good tutorial on your particular controller. While almost all MIDI controllers work alike, this would be a good question for the forums of that manufacturer. I know there are great Boss users groups on Facebook, for example.

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