H8000 Midi Hoplessness…

[tomylee]

Hi Italo,

I have to make a very urgent question: Is there hope you will one day tell me: Yes tom, im going to make a new MidiNoteOut Module with mod rate rate Gate and Note Inputs and Also the Midi in Devices will be handles at mod rate so you can have the on other devices dead on midi timing, where dead on is around +-1mSec…

You at some point already told me the H8000 is not made to process midi, but I dont take it for serious, you would just have to make the right modules, the h8k cant be that fed up programmed that you simply cant get me stable midi behaviour – im not even talking about using control wires, U just want following: when the "peak" module detects a peak, and the "oneshot" module then makes its one-shot, then is just f-ing want the Midi Out module to accept this one shot at mod rate instead of that I have to unnecessarily convert it (a-to-c) to controller domain, of course timing there is sloppy as hell, as it has always been in that domain, so just give me this green mod input midi devices Im asking for and finally get the midi things sorted out!! you can keep the old modules, just give the new generation stable midi with that machine, its such a waste of potential here…

Maybe Im too young, but I cant feed my analog synths always cv signals directly from DAC outputs which then would first have to be modded so they have no LC Filter in them…

So why Not use midi?…

Damn it cant be that hard, Italy I want you to give us aa in depht insight on this issue, and why it should really not be possible, or what would be any downsides…I just cant immagine the h8000 cant give me stable midi operation.

In fact ANY note i give to the h8000 for doing anything is unstable at least for +-5ms up to incredibly high +-15ms, which means a maximum of 30ms offf! I just tested that now and it is just inf-ing credible…

Just give me the simplest patch of a midi controlled monophonic synthesizer on the H8000 and I will proove you the +-15ms sloppyness, completely unusable, under this circumstances you should not promote midi capability of that unit, its just a joke in my eyes…

I would program it for myself, it cant be that hard, but I dont work for you guys, so, please you do it…

greeets

tomylee

[IDeangelis]

Hi Tom

i don't think I have said "the H8000" is not made to process MIDI". That's a very generic statement that has been extrapolated from its context, very likely. There are some MIDI areas where the H8000 is better than in others, sure.

Unfortunately I am not the one who creates modules so I don't have an answer for you about if/when. But as slow as things may be, you've been heard.

Currently MIDI notes do not control pitch as you expect to; they are pitched in reference to Middle C…I know…..something very different from what musical use requires.It's in my requests list too!

all the best

I

[tomylee]

HEADM adc 2 2 adc-null adc-null PeakdecectMidi Empty 3 emenu1-obj emenu2-obj info-obj ;=0,-25,100,0
KNOB fdec "fdecay : %7.3f sec" "" 0.001 100 0.001 0.1253 ;=400,275,100,0
KNOB fatt "fattack: %7.3f sec" "" 0.001 100 0.001 0.1123 ;=400,375,100,0
KNOB Treshhold "gatetres: %1.2f of 1" "" 0 1 0.01 0.2 ;=750,450,100,0
KNOB number_k "Midi CC: %1.0f #" "" 0 121 1 16 ;=1025,275,100,0
KNOB LCut "Detect LC:  %5.0f Hz" "" 0 20000 1 200 ;=400,175,100,0
KNOB Gatesustain "gatesust: %1.3f sec" "" 0 30 0.001 0.2 ;=750,575,100,0
SKNOB3 fatt1 "fattack: %7.3f sec" "" 0 0.001 0.1123 fatt1-out 0 100 fatt-out ;=550,250,100,0
SKNOB3 fdec1 "fdecay : %7.3f sec" "" 0 0.15 0.1253 fdec1-out 0 100 fdec-out ;=550,400,100,0
PEAK env1 highcut-out fatt1-out fdec1-out ;=875,25,100,0
GAIN gain1 switch1-out sens-out ;=625,25,100,0
KNOB sens "sens: %4.0f dB" sens -48 48 1 -10 ;=400,75,100,0
ADD add adc-in1 adc-in2 ;=100,25,100,0
SWITCH switch1 3 env-out adc-in1 adc-in2 add-out ;=250,25,100,0
TEXTKNOB env "env :  %s" "" 3 2 in1 in2 "sum 1+2" ;=100,225,100,0
MENUPAGE emenu1 "envelope params" env 8 env-obj sens-obj fatt-obj fdec-obj peakfollow-obj gatedetect-obj Treshhold-obj Gatesustain-obj ;=1525,325,100,0
MENUPAGE emenu2 "envelope params" env 4 LCut-obj number_k-obj "CC Mode-obj" Gatemode-obj ;=1525,550,100,0
MONITOR peakfollow c_quantize-out peakfollow:%1.3f monitor ;=1375,25,100,0
MONITOR gatedetect Gate-out gateactive:%1.0f monitor ;=1300,450,100,0
A_TO_C Controller env1-out ;=1025,25,100,0
A_TO_C Gate oneshot-out ;=1175,450,100,0
ONESHOT oneshot env1-out c_multiply-out Treshhold-out ;=1025,450,100,0
C_MULTIPLY c_multiply Gatesustain-out 1000 ;=875,575,100,0
HIGHCUT highcut gain1-out LCut-out ;=750,25,100,0
MIDINOUT midinout 1 0 c_switch1-out 0 100 0 ;=1525,700,100,0
TEXTBLOCK info 7 "Peakfollower and Gatedetector" "Triggers Midi Notes for Extrenal Use" "Use Guide Drumloop Through and control" "Ext Synth Filter Env Via Midi" "Midi Control Out Module Not working yet:" "Causing Program Changes" "Sum In, Left In, Right In, No Out." ;=1725,650,100,0
MIDICOUT midicout 0 0 number_k-out c_quantize-out ;=1525,25,100,0
C_SWITCH c_switch 2 "CC Mode-out" Controller-out 0 ;=1375,175,100,0
TEXTKNOB Gatemode GateMode:%s textknob 2 1 On Off ;=1050,725,100,0
C_SWITCH c_switch1 2 Gatemode-out Gate-out 0 ;=1300,825,100,0
TEXTKNOB "CC Mode" "CC Mode:%s" textknob 2 1 On Off ;=1200,175,100,0
C_QUANTIZE c_quantize c_switch-out 0.0078125 0 ;=1525,175,100,0

---

Try this – It should output a midi note for triggering a synth´s envelopes (im using that to run some signals through it, analog filters are just different..) the other part is a controller output, but that one makes the program "crash", well it gets unloaded in my unit and another program being loaded…

just try it, I hope the code is full, i just copied and pasted it all.

Notice the delay in the notes that are output from the midi ports…why does that have to be…

[IDeangelis]

I can load the sigfile without problems.

The inherent delay is always bigger when a function is created using a number of modules. Having a single module doing all of this, or almost, would also reduce delay.

best

I

[tomylee]

in fact timing is close to perfect up to the point in the chain where the A to C module has to convert the signal to the slow control domain. I understand that the control signal domain and control math etc is not time critical, since as the word sais, it is just there to control processes, not do do processes by itself, mosttly this is ok, steering via knobs etc, they all dont really need to be time critical, it would be nice if some could be but in fact most dont have to be – but with the midi modules I completely dont understand why it was designed that way, imho it a complete design fail, thats why I asked why it was made like that, what were the thoughts or restrictions to take care of?

Just think like this: if I send the signal out the audio outputs digitally into another device, for example into my sequencer, the timing is just perfect, as always…so I was asking if it was possible for eventide to create some mod rade midi modules.

Ideally all control modules should offer an easily switchable mode to make parameters mod rate…so complex routines could be strengthened in their timing alot, surely it would cost DSP power, but hey, I can cope with rather than the impossibility of realizing my ideas.

And I dont wanna buy kyma for that, its a touch too nerdy for me most of the time…

[jfcharles]

This is interesting. I think that MIDI is indeed a very important thing in the harmonizer. My guess is that the problem is more in the control signal domain than with MIDI itself. Eventide will have to improve this greatly in order to give a good feel to the supposed "E-Control". If they manage to do it for E-Control, that will almost surely work for MIDI as well.

The harmonizer is a great machine for live performance sound processing. It would be wonderful with a better control domain / MIDI response.

[jfcharles]

Yes, I agree with Tommy, more modulation domain <-> MIDI would be necessary. I like the "control/modulation" switch: that's a nice idea! Another way would be a global option: to ask all of the Control signals to be synchronized globally with the modulation.

One first modification I do to improve timing if I start a patch with a preset is to get rid of all graphic gizmos (example: moving sliders indicating rate of panning…). 

The harmonizer has so many MIDI qualities (mapping, etc), I hope Eventide is listening.

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