H8000 Midi Problems

[steveevans]

Hi,

I'm having a couple of issues with my H8000FW and MIDI that I cannot seem to resolve.

I have the MIDI channel set to 1, Omni mode is off, Midi maps are off. The midi controller is a Gordius Little Giant v2.

1) I cannot seem to change the bank with a CC #0. I send CC 0 32 and expect that the H8000FW will select bank 32. This is not happening and when I send the following PC command, all that happens is that the preset is loaded from the current bank.

2) I cannot seem to individualy control tweaks in Midi Virtual Racks set up on each processor. So for instance, I have MVR#1 set on DSP A and MVR#3 set on DSP B. I did a capture from the Little Giant on Assign 3 to recognise CC #22. On the Little Giant, I have channel 1 set for DSP A and channel 2 set for DSP B. However, the H8000FW ignores all CC's on channel 2, yet PC's work on this channel. What also happens is that the CC on channel 1 changes the tweak value on both MVR's.

All the best. Steve

[IDeangelis]

Hi Steve

which OS version is the H8K running on?

best

I

[sean.e]

SteveEvans:

2) I cannot seem to individualy control tweaks in Midi Virtual Racks set up on each processor. So for instance, I have MVR#1 set on DSP A and MVR#3 set on DSP B. I did a capture from the Little Giant on Assign 3 to recognise CC #22. On the Little Giant, I have channel 1 set for DSP A and channel 2 set for DSP B. However, the H8000FW ignores all CC's on channel 2, yet PC's work on this channel. What also happens is that the CC on channel 1 changes the tweak value on both MVR's.

This unfortunately is the way it works.  You will need to reset the channel assignments in the program for the specific DSP you run it on.  The gist of it is that the DSP channel is hardcoded into the program when saved, so the channel of the actual DSP on which a program is loaded is irrelevant.  I posted a feature request to make it work as you obviously (and I) thought it was supposed to work.  See this post.

[steveevans]

Hi Italo,

I'm running v5.3.

I've looked into this a little bit more and it's a bit weird. Here's what I have on one Little Giant switch:

Midi ch 1, CC 0 35

Midi ch 1, PC 10

Midi ch 2, CC 0 35

Midi ch 2, PC 10

If I understand this correctly it should load preset 3510 on both DSP A and B. What I find is this though:

1) The first time on DSP A, it selects preset 10 in the current bank. But the second time it works fine. If I then load another preset using the front panel into DSP A from a different bank and try from the Gordius again, I get the same issue i.e. it works the second time.

2) CC 0 35 on Midi ch 2 (DSP B) never works for me.

3) When I originally did the test I arbitrarily chose preset 3610. For some reason I cannot get the H8000FW to select bank 36 at all on either DSP.

I haven't looked any more into the dual virtual racks tweak problem yet.

It may be a problem with the Little Giant, I'm not sure. Any idea how I might debug this?

Cheers. Steve

[steveevans]

Hi Italo,

Many thanks for the answer for the MVR tweaks. It would be great if the H8000FW would recognise the midi channel when selecting the tweak. Here's hoping it's in a future release.

[IDeangelis]

Hi Steve

Midi Banks

All work fine here! This is the way things work:

When using Midi Maps+User Groups

if OMNI: ON – Group : Factory (MIDI Map) – MIDI map: Factory

a prog change on ANY midi channel will recall the respective numbered preset in the Factory group, on the current DSP, the visible one.

In this case, ROUTINGS can't be recalled via midi.

I notice that CC#0 navigates thru banks on any selected current DSP

 
**********************
 
if OMNI: OFF – Group : Factory (MIDI Map) – MIDI map: Factory  and base channel: 1

Prog Changes on base CH 1 recall the respective numbered preset in the Factory group ON DSP A

Prog Changes on base CH 1+1= 2 recall the respective numbered preset in the Factory group ON DSP B

Prog Changes on base CH 1+2= 3 recall Routings

Prog Changes on base CH 1+3= 4 recall Setups

 

Nice touch: when you load a preset on any DSP, its parameters will appear on the display, changing to the latest DSP (A or B) on which last preset has been loaded.

*******************

When disabling Midi Maps

if OMNI: OFF and base channel: 1

 

Prog Changes on base CH 1 recall the respective numbered preset in the bank set by CC#0, ON DSP A

Prog Changes on base CH 1+1=2 recall the respective numbered preset in the bank set by CC#0, ON DSP B

Prog Changes on base CH 1+2= 3 recall Routings

Prog Changes on base CH 1+3= 4 recall Setups

I have a Peavey PC1600X desktop MIDI controller, w/16 sliders and 16 switches. Sliders 1 and 2 send out CC #0 on MIDI ch 1 and 2 (respectively) and sliders 3 & 4 send out MID Program Changes on the same channels as 1 & 2. Thigs work perfectly.

My advice is:

-isolate the H8000! Connect the MIDI controller to the H8000 directly, nothing in between

-use a different MIDI cable. You never know.

-try a CLEAR SETUP on the H8000.

If these advices don't work…things will definitely depend on your MIDI controller.

++++++++++++++++++++

MVRacks

all these presets use the same CC#, assigned to ASSIGN #3 in the system. If you use 2 MVR presets, just change to assign 4 for the presets in DSP B and re_store them with Tweaks patched to Assign 4.

all the best

I

[steveevans]

Yes. That's the way I expect it to work.

Maybe it's the Little Giant. I'll try to send the same sequence from a sequencer and see what happens.

Thanks for your help so far.

Steve

[steveevans]

Italo, you're a star!

Clear setup solved the problem. Now it's working as expected.

Many Thanks again.

Steve

[IDeangelis]

yeah!

Hollywood stars call it MIDI Jam!

have fun

I

[steveevans]

Sorry Italo… looks like I got ahead of myself…

The clear setup solved the issue with the first CC #0 on DSP A being ignored. Now that works fine every time. It also solved the strange behaviour of not selecting bank 36.

However… CC #0 on base channel + 1 (DSP B) is still being ignored.

So I changed my patch to be very simple:

Midi Ch 2: CC 00 35

Midi Ch 2: PC 10

So I expect patch 3510 to be loaded. Omni mode is off, base midi channel was 1, midi maps off. All that happened was that preset 10 in the current DSP B bank got selected.

So, as a test, I changed the base midi channel of the H8000FW to 2. No changes on the Little Giant. After this and no other changes, it loaded program 3510 onto DSP A.

So, looks like something is not working right here on my H8000FW, given the Little Giant is sending out the same sequence.

[IDeangelis]

Steve

MIDI either works or it doesn't at all. There are no ways in between. I suggest you do tests with other MIDI gear.Not all controllers are equal.

best

I

[steveevans]

Thanks Italo, I'll try some more tests.

It's just I don't get why my H8000FW behaves in two different ways given the same midi message is being sent and that the only thing I changed was the midi base channel on the H8000FW. I just don't see how this can be a problem with my controller. But I'll try other ways of sending the same midi events.

[IDeangelis]

Steve

MIDI controllers may have different buffer size/transmission speed/amount of datas sent/etc.

In some cases issues may be possible, even though these are not very frequent.

Make sure your controller is ONLY sending the data relevant to the H8000. It would be also useful to reset the controller too, as you have done with the H8000. Surely worth trying.

I

[steveevans]

Hi Italo,

The only device I have conected to my controller is the H8000FW. I wonder if you could do this test for me:

1) Clear the H8000FW setup

2) Set the midi base channel to 1, omni off, midi maps off

3) Set up a controller which sends CC 0 36 PC 10 on midi channel 2 (preset #3610 DSP B)

4) From the front panel load preset #212 into DSP B

5) Select DSP A from the front panel

6) Send the midi sequence. Here I get preset #210 loaded into DSP B (Amp-u-lation)

7) Select DSP B from the front panel

8) Send the midi sequence. Now I get preset #3610

Very weird, but consistent on my H8000FW.

Steve.

[steveevans]

Hi Italo,

I've done the same test from another MIDI sequencer and I get the same result on my H8000FW. And I think I understand what it is doing… it is ignoring the CC #0 on the processor that is not selected on the front panel.

So when I have DSP A selected CC #0 on DSP B gets ignored. When I have DSP B selected, CC #0 on DSP A gets ignored.

BR. Steve

[IDeangelis]

Hi Steve

I see the same problem here, on V5.3 I have also tested the new beta system 5.5B1 and the result is different as it says Preset 3610 is already loaded. So we'll have to look into that and obviously it won't be changed in 5.3 as we are moving on to a new system. I haven't used a sequence, meaning by that a single burst in which Bank change + Prog change are sent out together.

Now, the problem may be caused by the sequence of actions you describe, that is alternating the use of MIDI to remote bank and program changes AND changing the current DSP display with the Processor A/B front panel key. The whole thing is very unlikely to be done in real life use as the whole purpose of using MIDI w/banks and presets is to do changes from remote, thus without really touching the unit front panel. That is the reason nobody has found this bug before.

I'm sure you have stumbled into this while doing all your tests to solve the problem discussed at the beginning of this thread, thus almost accidentally.

One nifty feature in the bank change is that it allows to visualize on the display the bank. Using a fader that sends out CC #0 like I do here, scrolls thru the banks and changes the display from A to B or the opposite, according to which MIDI channel (1 or 2) the fader is working on. This  happens only when the PROGRAM key is active.

Thanks for reporting this bug!

best

I

[steveevans]

Hi Italo again,

I'm glad you could repeat the problem. I was beginning to question my sanity last night…

I guess that if you're using bank changes from a midi controller you have to be absolutely sure which DSP is selected beforehand, otherwise there could be some "interesting" preset changes. But this leads me to the solution…

All I need to do is send a SysEx to change the processor before I send out the CC. Works like a charm.

What I'm trying to do is explore the possibility of using the H8000FW for both guitar and vocals in a live situation, with independent control of presets / tweaks. I think I have a working solution now.

So basically the solution is as follows:

1) On startup, ensure DSP A is the processor selected

2) For preset changes on DSP B, send a SysEx to select DSP B (MACHINE A/B). Then send the CC and the PC

3) Send another SysEx to select  DSP A (to avoid accidentally being on the wrong DSP for preset changes to DSP A).

Thanks for all your help with this and I hope the bug can be fixed in v 5.5.

BR. Steve

[IDeangelis]

Hi Steve

you are mixing two different issues here: the problem you are having with changing banks & presets AND the bug you reported.

The H8000FW works perfectly when it comes to bank AND preset changing. There is no need to use any front panel key. Switching from any dsp to the other is managed by the fact a MIDI controller sends out CC #0 on 2 different MIDI channels. Infact if you have the machine on the PROGRAM (key) display, sending a MIDI CC#0 with any value, will show its MIDI channel related DSP on the display If I move my slider CC#0 on channel 1, I see DSP A  and preset list. If I instead move my other slider, sending CC #0 on channel 2, then the display switches to DSP B right away. This is reported in my previous replies to you and has been tested over and over again.

So, no problem in this area…unless you start pressing Processor A/B and then use MIDI CC#0, as you found out.

I'm still convinced there is just something in your MIDI controller strings or internal setup that makes things incompatible, for some reason…or the H8000FW in general doesn't play well with your MIDI controller….that's why I asked you to try out a different MIDI controller. That would help understanding things.

Or you may have many other datas coming out of your MIDI controller that you don't know?

As already suggested:

-try resetting your MIDI controller and use the normal procedure, described in my first reply. No need to hit the A/B key on the unit.

-test another MIDI controller.

If we can't replicate the problem you are having and no others report the same, it means:

A- you are doing something different from what the procedure requires we keep using

B-there is something wrong/incompatible/???? in the gear

So, we can't replicate the first problem you reported. Everything works fine here.

But we can replicate the second problem you reported, using MIDI AND the front panel key.

let me know!

best

I

[IDeangelis]

On doing more tests on 5.5B1 here's what I see:

power on the unit and have it set like this:

OMNI: off

MIDI maps : none

MIDI ch: 1

press PROGRAM to look at presets list, on DSP A

send CC #0  with value 17 on MIDI ch 1 > the display goes to preset
1710 – DSP A, pointing at the correct bank

send Prog Change 10 on MIDI ch 1 > display shows "Preset 1710 is
already loaded"…and it's actually not! Any other program is loaded,
depending on how the unit was left before doing this test.

send Prog Change 11 on MIDI ch 1 > DSP A correctly loads preset 1711
in DSP A, as expected

send Prog Change 10 on MIDI ch 1  AGAIN> DSP A correctly loads preset
1710 now

send CC #0  with value 20 on MIDI ch 2 > the display goes to preset
2010 – DSP B, pointing at the correct bank

send Prog Change 10 on MIDI ch 2 > display shows "Preset 2010 is
already loaded"…and it's actually not! Any other program is loaded,
depending on how the unit was left before doing this test.

send Prog Change 11 on MIDI ch 2 > DSP B correctly loads preset 2010
in DSP B, as expected

send Prog Change 10 on MIDI ch 2 AGAIN > DSP B correctly loads preset
2010 now or you may also get "preset 2010 is alredy loaded"

Looks like there is a problem when pointing to a bank AND to its first
preset xx10…then you get the message that preset is already loaded
even if it's not.

can you replicate this on 5.3?

Can anybody replicate this on OS V5.5B1?

thanks

Italo

[steveevans]

Hi Italo,

Here's what I'm finding. I set up two switches:

1) CC 0 66 PC 62 midi channel 1

2) CC 0 35 PC 10 midi channel 2

I have preset #212 in both DSP's before the test.

Now the difference between you tests and mine appear to be that you have the PROGRAM key engaged, whereas I didn't, and don't expect to, tbh. All I want the H8000FW to do is recognise CC on both midi channels regardless of how the front panel is set, and this is what it is not doing.

In this situation if I have DSP A selected and the PROGRAM key engaged, when I click switch 2 it correctly sets preset #3510 on DSP B. However, there is an issue. It also disengages the PROGRAM button. So that when I press switch 1, it attempts to change the preset on DSP A to #262 (and reports that the preset could not be loaded), where it should go to #6662.

Also, I've tried this with two controllers; one hardware, one software. Same result.

BR. Steve

[IDeangelis]

Steve

it's ok the Program key is disengaged 'cause the H8000 will always show the loaded preset parameters.

I've tried your test and have no issues here.

Go figure this out….

We'll have to look into this and make changes if something looks wrong.

thank you

all the best

I

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