H8000FW not really dual engine???

[kackerman]

I keep running into a situation where my unit claims "only machine A is available with the current preset." I assume that this is because I'm loading up a monolithic program, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I bought the 8000 because I need the two engines to provide me with two effects, and I'm gtting really sick of having to compromise. I'm running OS 5.3.

The program I'm loading into machine A is # 3053 Comp/EQ/Micro/Verb. This is listed under the Multi Effects section. After loading it I can't use machine B because of the message listed above in quotes. Why?!?!?!?!

I'm mostly disappointed because I took the time to look through the H7600 preset list, and low and behold, there's the same program listed at the same number. How is that possible if this is truly a monolithic program? The H7600 after all only has one machine.

What's going on here? I often need to use two multi effect programs, and I'm constantly being put off because the H8000 locksout machine B. Is the H8000 program 3053 different somehow from the H7600 program 3053? Is my unit defective? Please help me understand.

[nickrose]

First, calm down and breathe deeply….

You don't give the sample rate, but I think I can safely assume that you are running above 48K. This is because 3053 is a large preset and will not run on a single dsp at 88 or 96k, so the unit loads a monolithic version. If you run at 48K or lower, you can load 2 copies.

The 7600 will load this preset at 48k, but cannot load it at all at  higher rates.

[kackerman]

Too many problems to calm down right now.

I'm actually locking to word clock at 44.1 KHz. I noticed in the manual the preset is listed twice as 48K and 96K, and assumed that it would load the appropriate one up based on the system clock that is currently locked.

What can I try next? Is there some way to maybe force it to the lower sample rate?

Thanks for the quick and needed response.

[nickrose]

I'm using 5.5 and having no problems. You are correct that it should pick the version appropriate to the sample rate in use.

First thing to do it to go to SETUP/clock and confirm the actual sample rate. Also, look at the leds on the front panel.

If it indeed shows 44.1K you could try with the Internal Clock and see if it has the same behavior. Based on that we might get a better idea of what is happening (Monday).

[kackerman]

Understood, the weekend is here.

I checked the system clock in SETUP, and it's mostly steady at WORDCLK, shifting between 44101 and 44102 KHz.

It's being fed word clock from an internal Apogee clock card in my Mackie D8B console.

In the past, this unit has been known to "freak out" when I've been auditioning programs. The clock will try to switch to say 48, and sometimes gives an error that states something like the clock has become too unstable to lock to. (I'm paraphrasing) In any case, I lock two other devices from the same source and have never had issues with them. 

I'll play around a little and report back what occurs.

Thanks again.

[kackerman]

More strangeness…

Without doing anything except trying again, it seemed to work. That is, until I switched the B machine program, and again, B disappears, and I'm locked out from using it.

The same phenomenon occurs when the unit is clocked internally to 44.100 KHz.

Perhaps an internal clock issue? Oh man, I have a sinking feeling that I'm really going to have to send it in for repair.

You should also know that months back I tried to describe a similar issue to support. The symptoms were a bit different, but the result of not having two machines available was the same. I reloaded v5.3 over the factory shipped 5.3 OS and it worked better for a while, but this new issue seems to have taken it's place. Previously I never saw any message at all, but was also unable to edit any currently loaded program because the effect would change to an awful sound. It appears to be that this strange annoyance has been with this unit since I bought it.

I hope this helps narrow down things. Please let me know how to proceed.

[kackerman]

Oh boy, what a mess…

One last behavior disorder symptom:

When switching back from internal 44.100 clock to word clock, that machine locks, but tells me that ADAT is "slipping".

I switch back to internal 44.100, and get a lock again, ADAT is OK now.

Back to wordclock, and the lock is strong and ADAT reports OK, but now I have a +1 or 100% signal on the conosle channel. Bad! I'm glad that channel was muted!

Back to internal 44.100 and the lock is strong and ADAT is OK, but the brutal 100% signal is still at the channel on the console channel.

The only way to stop this was to power down and reboot the H8000 with a setting of wordclock. (If I rebooted it with a setting of internal and then changed it to word clock, that nasty signal would come back to try and ruin my monitors. DREAD…

[nickrose]

My first thought is you may have W/C cabling or termination issues. Maybe try locking to AES instead ?

I don't know from where your ADAT comes, so hard to follow this issue. Nor do I know what your "console channel" is, so hard to make sense of this.

It is possible that there is a hardware issue with the clock circuitry, but this would tend to cause total failure rather than the symptoms you report. Hard to say.

[kackerman]

I'll switch cables and terminators, but I doubt this will change anything.

The w/c chain starts at the digital console's internal Apogee clock, and is then daisy chained to the H8000 and from there to a sound interface.

The console channel refers to a regular console channel where the H8000's output returns. (A channel on the mixer.)

I've tried internal clock and ADAT as clock sources and the behavior does not change, so clocking to AES may be a futile effort at thsi point, don't you think?

Can you provide me with an RMA? When do we throw in the towel on forum support and go to the next level?

[nickrose]

As you will understand, it can be very hard to diagnose these complex systems by remote control.

If you believe the unit needs to be returned, you should contact support@eventide.com.

[kackerman]

Alright.

As I said, I'll change the w/c cable and terminator to see if any difference can be reached. If you don't have any other troubleshooting steps for me to take, then I'll contact support for an RMA.

Thanks for all your help in trying to resolve this issue.

[flybywire]

I connect to my h8000FW via ADAT also,  – to a steinberg MR816csx mixer / interface that is connected to my PC via firewire – and my clock also switches between 44101 and 44102 KHz.

Not sure why – and I was wondering if that is considered "normal" or not …. I always just left it alone.. but it is annoying because one would think that the clock should be "locked"  is this something I too should be concerned about?

[nickrose]

Strictly speaking, it is not switching – it is the displayed value that appears to switch.

The clock value has no numbers after the decimal point, so all this means is that the clock value is on the edge (changeover point) between 44101 and 44102.

So, just a display precision issue – nothing to worry about. We limit the precision because otherwise it would be switching endlessly between (say) 44101.65 and 44101.66 and would be quite annoying, without actually telling us anything.

[kackerman]

I hope this will clear this up. Troubleshooting over email and forums is very ineffective. 

 

After watching this video, I'll hope that someone over there will believe more strongly that either this unit is broken, or I'm doing something really stupid. I changed out the w/c cables and terminators, and that had no affect. So, instead I decided to go to a blank slate. Nothing plugged into the back but power. The routing was set to analog outs only, and locked internal to 44.100 KHz. The problem persisted, and is repeatable. That is, most of the time. The video shows a clean repeat, but it's failed in other ways as well. I've actually had the unit load the program to both engines, and work until I touched anything. It would then lock out engine B again. I don't see how it can get any simpler than this. Again, lead me to different paths.

 

Yes it's true, I didn't lock to AES. But if it won't work when it's locked internally, then doesn't that simply rule out clock source? I mean we have to trust that the unit itself can operate in an old fashioned analog only type setup, right?[View:http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1854/sh8000woes.mp4:550:0%5D

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