H9 looper issues discussion

[teabandito]

First, i would like to thank Eventide team for the free looper algorithm – that is a really cool option for H9's functionality! But it has some annoying issues (at least on my pedal) which i would like to describe and discuss.
 
If you load a preset with a looper on your H9 you can no longer use your aux switch to switch presets. To jump to another preset you have to adjust the preset with the wheel on the pedal by hand. It can be a fail for some ways of use it in live situations. 

When you switch to looper preset from another preset to start recording immediately (in the middle of the song, for example), it hangs with an ugly noise very often, so you have to stop it and record again. Besides, the preset is loading with a small lag, so i could not use the looper this way. This also limits the live possibilities of the looper.

That's all about the looper issues. What i like about this looper is the possibility to assign it to a song's bpm and then to set the exact duration of the recording loop. So, when you start recording you just concentrating on playing your phrase, it will stop recording and start playback automatically. Awesome feature! I don't know if there are any loopers which can do the same thing, maybe they exist 

I always wanted to use looper in live shows, but did not want to spend much money for a good looper. I only owned Boss RC-2 which i modded to stop and erase with another switch, but i couldn't get used to it. It wasn't easy to record a good phrase and the worst thing was that it was nearly impossible to get synchronized with the drummer who actually played with metronome. Now with H9 it's super easy, i use it in almost every song, letting my singer (and sometimes myself ha-ha) concentrate on vocals. 

Again, thank you, Eventide!

[gkellum]

teabandito:

If you load a preset with a looper on your H9 you can no longer use your aux switch to switch presets. To jump to another preset you have to adjust the preset with the wheel on the pedal by hand. It can be a fail for some ways of use it in live situations. 

I'm not sure I understand this. There are a couple of different pedal functions that you can assign to an AUX switch to jump to the next preset; there's preset up and preset down and there's also load next and load previous. Which pedal function is not working for you, and what are you seeing happening when you try to use the AUX switch when the Looper is loaded?

[teabandito]

Well, i can adjust only one function to 1 button, right? So i adjusted to just scroll presets up and down, but when i load a looper preset aux switch is no longer adjusted to scroll through presets but to start/stop/rec loops.

[wedelich]

Hi teabandito, 

Are you referring to the Switch on the H9, or to an actual physical and separate Aux switch?  If it is a separate Aux switch, will you kindly detail exactly how you have programmed in System Mode, so we can try to duplicate your issue? 

Thanks!

[teabandito]

I am using a separate 3 button Aux switch and it is adjusted as following:

Increment preset – Footswitch 3 (Tip+Ring)

Decrement preset – Footswitch 2 (Ring)

Left Footswitch (aka Active Footswitch) – Foot Switch 1 (Tip)

I am actually not sure is it an issue or feature 🙂 Because i need 3 buttons to operate a looper anyway. But maybe it is possible to readjust pedal switches to list presets when the looper is on. Now the looper is adjusted to the same Aux switch buttons as a preset listing buttons automatically and i have no idea how else can i readjust looper functions. There is no other alternative in Aux Switch mappings setup.

[teabandito]

Well, looks like the looper algo freezes more frequently than i noticed earlier. It happens in like 10 times of 100 and sometimes you cannot just stop it and begin recording again. You should load another preset and then go back to looper preset to make it work again. Very annoying and it makes looper unreliable and unusable in live situations. Maybe it depends on power? I power it with the most powerful output i have on my CIOKS TC10 – 12VDC 400mA. 

Anyway, i keep using it for now, need some time to get used to it even when it works properly. But it's still the handiest looper i ever played. Really hope that you guys can fix those issues in future updates! 

[wedelich]

teabandito:

I am using a separate 3 button Aux switch and it is adjusted as following:

Increment preset – Footswitch 3 (Tip+Ring)

Decrement preset – Footswitch 2 (Ring)

Left Footswitch (aka Active Footswitch) – Foot Switch 1 (Tip)

I am actually not sure is it an issue or feature 🙂 Because i need 3 buttons to operate a looper anyway. But maybe it is possible to readjust pedal switches to list presets when the looper is on. Now the looper is adjusted to the same Aux switch buttons as a preset listing buttons automatically and i have no idea how else can i readjust looper functions. There is no other alternative in Aux Switch mappings setup.

Thanks for the detailed info.  That helps so much!  

So…. I was able to duplicate this bug, it seems that somehow the PR+ and PR- functions in fact do not work properly when the Looper is in Loop Mode.  This is something we'll look at for a possible fix in the next update.  For now I offer these workarounds: 

1.  Press and hold the Right Footswitch to put the Looper into Preset Mode.  The PR+ and PR- assigned Aux switches should now work.  Unfortunately this requires the extra Press-and-hold step whenever you want to exit the Looper.  

2. We have Aux switch designations for NXT and LST.  These designations will either increment (NXT) or decrement (LST) and then automatically load the preset.  These Aux switch designations do work for Looper in Loop Mode.  

[wedelich]

teabandito:

Well, looks like the looper algo freezes more frequently than i noticed earlier. It happens in like 10 times of 100 and sometimes you cannot just stop it and begin recording again. You should load another preset and then go back to looper preset to make it work again. Very annoying and it makes looper unreliable and unusable in live situations. Maybe it depends on power? I power it with the most powerful output i have on my CIOKS TC10 – 12VDC 400mA. 

Ok.  thanks for diving into this Looper (and for the compliments on it's handiness!).  As with the previous issue, might you be kind enough to chase this down further for us?  Please be as detailed as possible.  A list of steps that reliably is able to reproduce the issue would be most helpful, as in: 

1. Load non-Looper Preset XX

2. From non-Looper Preset XX, load Looper Preset YY

3. Looper Preset YY is a Looper preset with these parameter settings (list them) and is in Tempo (or non tempo) Mode, etc.  

4……etc etc. steps until we can get to the freeze or hang.  

Even if it's 10% of the time we should see it here pretty quickly, given this level of detail.  

Thanks again!  

[teabandito]

Ok, i shot a video on my last rehearsal, so you can see how it actually looks and sounds.

Looper:

Previous preset (but looks like id doesn't depend from what preset you go to lloper)

Here is the video. The left button is play, the middle is rec, the right is stop. So when load the looper i stop it, because i don't need to record anything this time. Then i push rec and sometimes it hangs immediately with that drone sound, sometimes it lets me record one loop and even plays it first time, sometimes it records till the middle and then playbacks the fall of the pattern which i tried to record. On the last rehearsal it it was freezing like 99% of times. Switching to other preset did not help, turning it off and then again on also did no affect to this issue

http://youtu.be/mJbl9A1nOA8:550:0

[teabandito]

I don't know if this thread is a good place to post suggestions about the looper improvement, but i think it would be super cool if there was a possibility to assign looper algo to another output so the loops could be directed to another amp or even console input and just let the original sound pass through living it without any affect. What do you think about that? 

[wedelich]

I'm so far not able to duplicate your bug from the video, and I'm still not completely understanding your set up.  Are you assigning each Aux Switch button to 2 functions?  As in, is a button that is assigned to Pre+ also assigned to a Looper function?  Will you detail your exact Aux switch set up from the system mode?  For example: 

TIP has Pre+ AND PLY

RNG has Pre- and Rec

T+R has FS1 and STP 

Also, make sure you are using a TRS (or stereo) cable with your Aux Switch.  A mono cable will not work.  

Either way, we never designed the Aux switches designations for Looper to be overloaded with something else, so we can't make any promises as to how this will or should behave.  It honestly never occurred to me that it could be used this way.   

[teabandito]

It's not me, i did not assign any aux switch to 2 functions. This was the default setup. Here it is from system mode:
 TIP has FS1 and REC
RING has PR- and PLY
T+R has PR+ and STP

This is what i can see in H9 Control and in System mode.

I am using a TRS cable for sure. I actually have been using H9 more than a year now with AUX switch and am pretty happy using it that way.

I tried to use the looper without an AUX switch. It works great, so i decided to switch off looper functions from AUX switch buttons. So no double functions on my AUX switch. But AUX switch doesn't lists presets if the looper algorithm is ON anyway.

[wedelich]

Thanks, I just wasn't sure we working on the same page.  

As a side note, you shouldn't need to press Stop after you load a Looper Preset because Looper always loads Empty.  That might be the cause of some of the intermittent behavior.  

When you use the Looper without any Looper Aux Switch designations, is the drone bug still there?  Or does it work like you think it should? 

Also, to re-iterate, the Aux Switch will list presets if the Looper is in Preset mode (press and hold the Right Footswitch to put the H9 Looper in Preset Mode).  

Thanks for hanging in there with me….

[teabandito]

Yes, now it isn't recording when i activate looper, that's cool. I think i can get used to this setup.

I couldn't make the drone come bug me again yet, i will look after that 🙂

I'll come back later when i'll get it looped enough 🙂 

[wedelich]

Ok, thanks so much!  

I'm pretty sure that bug had something to do with the doubly assigned Aux Switches and pressing Stop after loading Looper.  I'll also double check our factory setup for Aux Switches to make sure the defaults won't be misleading.  

[teabandito]

Ha, the answer from competitors has come quickly! Just kidding 🙂

http://www.strymon.net/multiswitch/ 

[spencerjacob]

I have a total newb question too. When I engage the pedal/effects via the footswitch there is a lag. Like the kind of lag that cuts off any signal from the guitar at all for what seems like almost a full second. Is this normal? Or fixable? 

[spencerjacob]

Or can someone point me to the answer?

[wedelich]

spencerjacob:

I have a total newb question too. When I engage the pedal/effects via the footswitch there is a lag. Like the kind of lag that cuts off any signal from the guitar at all for what seems like almost a full second. Is this normal? Or fixable? 

Are you referring to the Looper specifically or just the H9 in general?  You'll have to be way more specific as to which algorithm and/or preset this affects.  Perhaps you should start a different thread if this has nothing to do with the Looper.  

Thanks

[spencerjacob]

H9 in general. This happens when I am in normal mode just switching through presets. 

Sorry, I looked for a thread and didn't find an appropriate one. I didn't want to start a new one either.

[wedelich]

spencerjacob:

H9 in general. This happens when I am in normal mode just switching through presets. 

Sorry, I looked for a thread and didn't find an appropriate one. I didn't want to start a new one either.

This is certainly not normal.  It should switch presets very quickly when using the footswitches. Can you describe in detail, exactly what you're doing on a step by step basis?  As in: 

1. Starting from preset # XX

2. Use right footswitch to cue up preset # XY

3. Press left footswtich to load preset….

4. Etc, Etc.  

[wedelich]

wedelich:

spencerjacob:

H9 in general. This happens when I am in normal mode just switching through presets. 

Sorry, I looked for a thread and didn't find an appropriate one. I didn't want to start a new one either.

This is certainly not normal.  It should switch presets very quickly when using the footswitches. Can you describe in detail, exactly what you're doing on a step by step basis?  As in: 

1. Starting from preset # XX

2. Use right footswitch to cue up preset # XY

3. Press left footswtich to load preset….

4. Etc, Etc.  

Also, what is your exact setup, are you running in an effects loop, in front of an amp, direct?  Are you using killdry?  Etc.  

[spencerjacob]

I am doing nothing more than powering the unit up and playing through the presets. However, it could be the settings since i bought it used. 

Running it in front of amp

Not sure what killdry is but I assume it's the bypass setting. 

It isn't so much the time it takes to load the preset as it is the fact that it is cutting my guitar signal for a split second while doing this. I should have been more specific. 

I can't be playing through a fuzz pedal and click on a phaser, delay or any effect without losing my signal for a split second. Like a kill switch stutter. Not usable for a live situation like this.

Please tell me this is just some setting I am in or something and not a function of it being a digital machine. 

[spencerjacob]

Okay so I changed the bypass mode to DSP and it works fine now :]

I think it was in the true bypass mode and it doesn't fly like that. I compared my tones with the pedal engaged in dsp mode versus the pedal unplugged and it sounds great. I assume unplugging the power adapter puts it in true bypass, right? 

Thanks for the assistance. 

[nickrose]

spencerjacob:

I assume unplugging the power adapter puts it in true bypass, right? 

Indeed.

[anibalresendez]

I was trying to make a video using 1 h9 with crushstation and the second one after the 1st one, using the long basic looper, and the (I don’t know how to say this) quality of the sound of the loop is not the same as the actual sound I’m playing, is a little birt darker, I tried moving the filter, etc, but I simply can’t match the source sound.

Am I doing something wrong? Or is it a glitch, bug or something?

Any help will be appreciated 

 

thank you 

[spaceJam]

anibalresendez wrote:

Am I doing something wrong? Or is it a glitch, bug or something?

 

Just remember the “SPEED” value determines the max length and the quality of the loop. Being 1/4x – 48s the lowest quality and 2x – 6s the highest.

I don’t have any problem with 1/2x – 24s, since I don’t use my looper as a supplement but as a complement that I like to have behind my main instrument.

[wedelich]

spaceJam wrote:

anibalresendez wrote:

Am I doing something wrong? Or is it a glitch, bug or something?

 

Just remember the "SPEED" value determines the max length and the quality of the loop. Being 1/4x – 48s the lowest quality and 2x – 6s the highest.

I don't have any problem with 1/2x – 24s, since I don't use my looper as a supplement but as a complement that I like to have behind my main instrument.

 

SpaceJam is right, the longer loop times are only available because we reduce the quality, i.e. the sample rate and therefore the bandwidth, to acheive this.  It's your basic engineering / design tradeoff……we want a feature, but alas, we have to make a sacrifice to get it.  The box only has enough hardware SRAM to account for 6 secs of audio at full bandwidth.  The 1x for 12 secs is a reduced bandwidth as well, but it rarely matters for guitars and gutiar amplifiers as they typically don't produce and reproduce very much above 12 kHz anyway.  As spaceJam also poitns out, often the 1/2x even works well b/c there really isn't much above 6 kHz either (especially if you play with your tone knob rolled off a bit).  

[anibalresendez]

well, is not that I’m not satisfied with it, and yes, I was tryng to do a 30 something seconds of loop, and then another layer, so it works but not for everything 

thanks for the help guys 

[xdadex]

For by band, I’ve been using a Timefactor loop preset for about a year to do some basic REC, PLAY & STOP functions via CC numbers- using clips in an AbletonLive timeline. (our whole show basically runs off of Ableton). This worked pretty well but the loops would go slightly out of sync over time- even though it was MIDI clocked.

NOW, I’ve been trying to use the H9 looper instead (old pedals got stolen), and running into all kinds of trouble.

Primary problems include: 1) Completely ignoring my CC clips and doing nothing… 2) Playing the loop NOT when the PLAY command is givin but about a second after- making the loops out of sync. 3) seeming to record and play the first milisecond- creating a loud annoying buzz.

Messing around with the length of the clip in the timeline seems to have some efect- sometimes good. sometimes bad. It’s getting really frustrating. Any advice. Got a show tomorrow.

[brock]

… but the MIDI timing output by major DAW programs is very inconsistent.  Hard to believe, but most DAW clocks are more unreliable & jittery than some of the drummers I’ve worked with.  And that’s saying something …

It’s been quite a while since I’d tested Ableton Live against some others, but my conclusion was to go with an outside MIDI Clock in hardware.  When I use Cakewalk Sonar (or similar) live, I sync it as a slave to a Lexicon MPX 1, or even to an ancient Yamaha RX-21 drum machine as the master clock.  I split the MIDI clock to software and hardware in parallel routings.

It’ll be difficult to determine where your CC message problems originate without more specific information or examples.  The clips themselves (saved to .mid) would allow for testing by someone else here. Or at least a detailed listing.  You don’t want to send too many MIDI messages to the H9 in quick succession.  Is your H9 set to its own MIDI Channel (or Omni)? 

That #3 point sounds like two ‘high’ CC values are being sent out one after the other.  What CC values are you using as the ‘triggers’?  In other words, are the CC values in the range of 64-127, with no CC values between 0-63?

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