H90 latency Program Change

[garymusique]

Hello,
I just got the H90 and I find myself very annoyed because I want to use the H90 with only a midi switcher to change programs and I noticed that there was a little latency at each program change. I really thought there would be no noticeable latency but I don’t get the feel of the sound being activated instantly like with an analog pedal. this latency is annoying enough to be noticed at the beginning of the bar when I activate the program. is this latency normal? Because I have often seen people say that for example the H9 had a really instant program change at noon. I haven’t heard anyone complain about this.
If I can’t find where the problem comes from or if it’s normal for the machine to work like that, I’ll have to return it because this latency is impossible in live and it’s not pleasant to have to anticipate this delay each change. of his.

Here is my update version:

Software Version : 1.3.0.75
Audio Version : 1.873
Panel Version : M:1.415

[cestlamort]

I’ve also experienced latency when switching programs. The spillover does help mask it, but it is not instantaneous and I’ve had to switch ahead of the part when when changing programs. It’s really obvious when you click on a button and it doesn’t engage until your foot is almost back on the floor.

Digital pedals will always have some latency for loading the next program. (Note that you won’t have the same issue when switching off and on, either with digital or analog pedals)

The H9 also lagged when switching between algorithms (the time dependent on the algorithm) and would drop out between algorithms.

In short, I believe that this is just how the pedal is.

[tbskoglund]

You can try changing the Spillover setting to a lower value and this may improve the time between changing Programs. You may also find that using the onboard footswitches in Select Mode will be more immediate than using your MIDI controller.

[garymusique]

THANKS ! I will try to change the spillover settings

[emptyparadigm]

I’ve had this exact experience, which is a real bummer because I’d hoped that the H90 would be the all-FX-in-one unit I’d dreamed of. But the momentary signal dropout when engaging/swapping between presets is so noticeable that I’m going to sell mine when I’m home from tour in three weeks. Really disappointing considering the fact that gapless switching was touted as a selling point.

[cestlamort]

It sounds like yours is cutting out when switching between programs (like on the H9). You can use the spillover setting to mask this.

Are you also experiencing a lag when switching between programs (whether by onboard foot switch or MIDI)?

H90 manual (p. 34, emphasis mine):

Switching between Programs is instantaneous, and features spillover, which allows the previous Program’s reverb/delay tail to decay naturally when another Program is loaded.

My experience differs here.

Even with reducing the spillover time, I am still struggling with the lag (latency) when switching between programs, and I wonder whether my unit is especially laggy or if it’s the same with all of them and it just doesn’t bother other users as much.

[emptyparadigm]

I’ve found that it cuts out when switching between programs that utilize different algorithms as well as ones which use the same one (though it seems less noticeable with the latter).

If I have the unit bypassed and then load a program using an external controller, all audio momentarily cuts out before the program loads appropriately.

[cestlamort]

I haven’t done a scientific comparison, but the latency seems a bit better after the new update (1.5.2)

[apalazzolo]

cestlamort wrote:

I haven’t done a scientific comparison, but the latency seems a bit better after the new update (1.5.2)

From the release notes:  “Users will notice significantly reduced latency with onboard footswitches & external controllers, especially in timing-critical scenarios”

[emptyparadigm]

Can confirm that the “gapless switching” is still anything but even after the newest firmware update. Switching + engaging a preset via secondary controller sending a MIDI command also produces an audible gap. If I weren’t on tour right now I’d already have this up for sale. Seriously disappointed in the H90 in this regard.

[tbskoglund]

Sorry to hear of your disappointment. I am unable to reproduce your issue, I never experience a gap in the audio when I am sending a constant tone to the H90 from a synth and changing Programs using the footswitches or a MIDI controller.

If you’d like to troubleshoot this further, can you please email support@eventide.com and provide full details of your setup, and if possible audio and/or video examples of the issue would be helpful.

[tonyshred]

I can also confirm the latency as mentioned above. But I actually think it’s worse when going from bypass to active. I tried to change the spillover but it didn’t have any effect. I have the H90 connected to a serial FX loop on a guitar amp.

I’m looking forward to a fix.

Thanks

[tonyshred]

tonyshred wrote:

But I actually think it’s worse when going from bypass to active.

Fyi That’s P bypass.

[tbskoglund]

To clarify, the lower spillover time only improves loading if you’re loading Programs in quick succession within the length of an otherwise longer Spillover time.

Are you changing Programs using the H90’s footswitches or with a MIDI controller?

[udi9]

I’m also experiencing latency and an audio drop when changing programs. It’s not a complete cut, but there’s definitely an audible drop.

I’m only using the H90’s footswitches, but changing programs is not instantaneous as the manual suggests.

Using the latest firmware 1.5.6

[udi9]

I recorded a short video showing the audio drops when changing programs:

H90 changing programs

[tbskoglund]

What is your spillover time set to?

[udi9]

4 seconds.

I’ve also tried lower (and higher) settings, but it made no difference.

[nico___]

same problem

h90 latency on inserts

 

In summary, therefore, the slow midi communication does not seem to be the problem, perhaps the algorithm loading process should be optimised/speeded up.

 

[emptyparadigm]

I’m relieved that I’m not the only one experiencing this, but I’m also sad that the fix isn’t as simple as getting a replacement unit. Between this and the ongoing lack of mobile app for control/editing, looks like my h90 is on its way out. Maybe I’ll revisit it down the road after some updates, assuming that updates remedy this problem, but in its current form it is unusable for me in a live setting.

[MarcoR]

It might be helpful if people that experience lag to post what algorithms are in each program you switching between? Maybe some algorithms are more difficult to get seamless? Maybe the presets have different routing and the dry path is being broken?

I notice lag going from a program with a reverb and delay in parallel to a pitch and delay in series. I find most of my programs that are just reverb and delay in parallel switch seamlessly.

I wouldn’t expect two completely different algorithms to not have some glitch when switching between them. And then if they also have different routing? I think there are some circumstances where expecting completely seamless switching might be unrealistic.

[ryq]

Yeah, it’s horrendous!!!

I’m a sales engineer for this product and I’m shocked after being alerted to this issue. Eventide, please fix!!! Here’s a video with tails off and 0 seconds of spillover. Video is currently unlisted.

[tbskoglund]

Sorry for the issues you are having, but your video is not very helpful for troubleshooting the issue.

If you’d like to pursue this further, please export your Program list and send it to support@eventide.com. Let us know exactly which programs you experience the issue with and we can look into it.

[Vavoom]

Recently picked up the H90 (new) and after programming with Morningstar MC6PRO, I am seeing/hearing the same latency when switching programs.

It is more apparent when using a midi switcher and going from PC change to PC change.  Very apparent.

In a live situation, this could be problematic. I’m getting about the same delay as the video.  The video pretty much shows the delay…and you can easily hear it.  I would guess it’s about around 700 ms.  There has to be a fix. I had a delay like this once with a midi switcher and an adjustment to a time parameter on the midi switcher fixed it, but that was 15 years ago.

[Vavoom]

Continuing my thread from yesterday, I’m spending a few more hours tweaking/programming Morningstar M6 pro.  It’s such fun.  A few things….some people are saying they’re going to sell their unit  because of the latency issue.  I’m not that great at midi programming, but there are definitely work arounds.  That is what is fun about doing all this.  I can understand if something just doesn’t work, but the trade offs you would make are worth it in H90 midi switching.  The sound and power is just to high of level.  If you need a tone such as chorus or pitch, or delay etc… have it ‘part of a program and just bring it up by active/bypass.  This is simple and fast. Then you can ‘switch programs’ when practical.  So far this is the apparent work around for latency issues IMO.

[brinporter]

yeah, this latency issue is pretty crippling for me for live scenarios. Is it a software issue that can be fixed in a future firmware update? I’d be really sad if I had to sell because of that. Everything else about this pedal is magnificent.

[amc8]

Just adding to this that I am noticing a lag / dropout when switching programs in bank mode.

[Matang]

Any news about this?
I use a midi switcher and the delay until the program is actually switched is a real problem here 🙁

[Matang]

Ok actually I think it works fine now, at first I saw the visual response and also had some other issues with the MIDI that made it look and sound like the program is loaded after a really long delay through MIDI.
But then I checked it further, and in fact the signal of the new loaded program (which is what matters the most) is already heard a while before the program is visually loaded on the H90 screen & leds, so the response itself is pretty much ok.

I want to test it a bit more to be sure, but for now seems like the H90 is doing the job also for live scenarios and programs switching through MIDI.

[tbskoglund]

Glad to hear this is working well for you!

[amc8]

hi folks, just checking in about this one again – for instance i am running two patches in bank mode, in the same bank, attempting to go from a patch consisting of aggravate and a spring reverb, the settings in aggravate are the same, i am basically just going from a slightly drier patch to one where the filter opens a little on aggravate and the reverb gets a little longer and wetter, tails on with a 4 second spillover, but I am getting a drop to near silence between the patches when switching – no external midi controller just the pedal switches.

[ryq]

Yeah, I’m still having the issue no matter what I do. It’s really frustrating to spend this much on something only to have to deal with an issue this crippling.

[amc8]

totally – i had thought something as simple as switching from a rhythm to a lead tone without a temporary muting would be doable haha

 

[apalazzolo]

If you get out of bank mode, you can easily set up a hotswitch with your alternate aggravate and reverb parameters.  That will allow you to switch between the two properly.

If you need to stay in bank mode for some reason, you can accomplish the same thing described above using an external aux switch.

Good luck!

 

 

[amc8]

Good suggestion here! Thanks! Unfortunately I do need to be in bank mode as my whole set runs that way, each bank has a song, often with quite different sounds across the three slots – some of which are very wild/complex and oddly this kind of plain rock one is the only one that has the issue of this volume drop!  I’m also running only this pedal for a very streamlined setup so having another switch im not super keen on because like I said this is the only patch change that’s having the issue. Thanks again for the good suggestion!

[tbskoglund]

If you could please backup your pedal and send the backup file to support@eventideaudio.com I can take a look at reproducing your setup.

Please include some information about which banks/programs you are using when you experience this issue.

A video that demonstrates the issue would also be helpful.

Please see #1 for how to backup your pedal: https://cdn.eventideaudio.com/manuals/h90/1.9.7/content/h90-control/edit.html#parameters-edit-menu

 

[ryq]

A couple of us have posted videos.

[tbskoglund]

I’m sorry, I only see 1 video posted by you on this thread, and when you posted this video I told you that it was not very useful for troubleshooting the issue. This was over a year ago and I’m not sure if you ever emailed support as I suggested back then.

If you’d like to troubleshoot this further, please follow the instructions I posted for backing up your pedal and email that to support@eventideaudio.com with more thorough information about when you experience the issue and with what banks/programs.

[ryq]

Look above in this thread for a post by user udi9 who also posted a video. Additionally, so many people are experiencing this that you should be able to easily recreate the issue by following any of the examples of when it happens in this thread. I worked for Sweetwater and I can tell you this isn’t an isolated issue. Instead of demanding we make more videos, maybe try taking a H90 and just doing what we’ve dine here. We’ve tried with different spillover times, etc. The problem persists.

[amc8]

Hi There,

 

I have emailed the backup to you. Here is a video of the issue happening in both bank mode and performance mode as well as a wave showing the dropping volume across a consistent sustained note when changing patches.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[amc8]

hmm maybe that vid upload didnt work

[tbskoglund]

Thanks for sharing this. I can see the video in your support ticket. Sorry, sharing links on our forum does not always work well. We can troubleshot this further via your support ticket.

[amc8]

Hi there sorry – video here –

 

Bank mode dropout:

 

 

[cestlamort]

I’d also suggest considering switching out of bank mode to performance mode (tap upper left dial) when needed, and set up a hot switch to go between the different settings in the same pair of algorithms (i.e., stay in the same program).

I do a similar thing: each song has its own bank, and the three programs within the bank are the different parts of the song, but with some songs requiring going into performance mode for some parts. It’s just one more click and doesn’t require extra hardware.

As one of the people who has struggled with the brief drop out (or lag) when switching between programs, it’s worth exploring alternatives to switching programs for each part. Anecdotally (I haven’t measured it), the lag/drop out seems to have lessened with the newer firmware updates.

 

[amc8]

thanks mate i will look into this option as well !

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