H90 Looper Question: Overdubbing length and Two Looper Algos at once

[Mydingling]

Hi! I’ve been reading the manual but can’t figure out if this either of the following are possible.

1. I want to create a base loop track and then overdub a layer that is longer than the base track while having the base track keep repeating. Is this possible? I think the Ditto+ can do something like this and not sure if I just can’t find a setting that does this.

2. Alternatively, if I use 2 Looper algos, would it be possible to record a track on algo 1 and then have algo 2 sync to the length or (end time) of algo 1. Ideally, I’d be able to mimix the behavior described in my first question, but even just having then fully in sync would be helpful too.

And of course, if none of this is supported…could we get such features added? I loooove the looper and bought a second h90 so I could use one as a dedicated looper, but just missing a few use cases to make it perfect.

[brock]

Yes & yes, with two Looper instances.  I have been working on a ‘SuperLooper’ Program List that does just that, and much more.  Unfortunately, it’s been been bumped by other projects, and remains as a pile of semi-rough drafts.

But I can give you the basic concepts here:

• The key one: the new Performance Pages 3 & 4 dedicated to REC PLAY STOP in each instance.
• Quality of life option: while it’s possible to switch Perform pages by stepping on the Perform knob, I prefer to map Perform Mode globally to an external MIDI command.
• The ‘Super’ option: at least one 3-way AUX switch, mapped to trigger REC / PLAY / STOP in both Loopers for simultaneous control.
• Variable control option: This multi-looper configuration begs to have some type of continuous control.  Commonly an expression pedal, or MIDI.

You end up having base looping commands over Looper A, Looper B, or both.  You also have alternatives for live interaction.

My core template:

• Page 1 – Act/Byp, 1-BTN LOOP (A), 1-BTN LOOP (B).
• Page 2 – bonus HS1 variation or TAP, plus a combo of useful looping commands (Direction, Speed, Undo/Redo).
• Page 3 – basic looping commands, isolated to Looper A.
• Page 4 – basic looping commands, isolated to Looper B.
• Aux 4-6 – basic looping commands, sync’ed for both Looper A & Looper B.
• EXP1 – variable control (don’t leave home without it).

I won’t go into the wild possibilities for quad-looping we have with a 2nd H90.  Or the options for ‘feeding’ a single Looper with a variety of pre/post processing algorithms.  For some unknown reason, this amazing Looper flies under the radar.

[Mydingling]

Ahh interesting thanks for the reply. I do have a large midi controller so external control is not an issue. I’m confused how the setup would work though. Is the idea that you initially record a base track onto both loopers? Is the expression pedal for controlling input level for one of the algos?

[brock]

Oh, good: not a MIDI-phobe.  I set up the template to be more universally usable, with Aux switches and an expression pedal.

EXP1 is your wildcard, specific to each Program.  It could be input levels, but I also use it for combinations: Start Point, Rec & Play Speeds, Decay … most anything, and not necessarily the same parameters in each Looper instance.

It sounds like you could easily substitute a MIDI CC for all that (and also the switches).   As for conceptually, this template assumed using the 3 onboard switches, and  advancing through the Performance pages to access the 4 sets of three.  Page 1 simulates both Page 3 & 4 using 1-BTN LOOP controls, as another handy option.

I’ll give you an example.  Two Loopers, in Series or Parallel, as needed.  REC a loop at any length with just the Page 3 switches.  Let’s say it AutoPlays while you switch over to Page 4, and REC a 2nd loop in Looper B.  Now you have 2 independent loops running that you can actively modify with EXP1, or the Page 3 & 4 controls individually.

Aux Switch 4-6 are the master controls over both Loopers.  REC / DUB, PLAY / RESTART, STOP / ERASE that will override what happens in the individual Looper A & Looper B.

In Series, you can have Looper A ‘feed’ a REC operation in Looper B, for even more manipulation, with LOOP A remaining in its original form.  Parallel (of course) leaves them completely independent, in sync, or free-running.

There are too many ways to go into here, listing every possibility.  When I get a chance, I’ll check the Program List for a prime example of a good starting point for exploration.

[Mydingling]

Thank you Brock! I got something workable after messing around for a bit. Had a couple issues though:

– Make sure you pedal’s firmware is UP TO DATE. I had some big issues initially and turns out the latest update fixed a ton of looper issues.

– I recommend using analog footswitches for now. I spent several hours trying to make the my FDB1010 midi board work and nothing I tried was consistent. I think there’s issues with One Button Looper and Record commands mapping to midi. (I tried all sorts of combos with CC values of 0=>127, 127=>0, just 0 and just 127 and none of them worked as expected).

That said, I finally got something working. The big conceptual thing for me was having one of the loopers record at 1/2 speed and be BYPASSED for the initial base layer + triggering a Record command on both loopers simultaneously. This sets up a scenario where that looper is “empty” from an audio standpoint (because it was bypassed), but essentially acts as a container for “double” the length of the base layer since it was recorded at 1/2 speed. This is followed up by recording to only that looper with a separate switch. Not gonna lie, it’s liiiitle janky but I think I can adjust to it and it’s worth it to have all the other functionality the looper algo affords.

[brock]

Fantastic.  It’s a difficult concept to get across clearly with text. I really need to finish up that ‘SuperLooper’ Program List.  Every time I shift my attention over to that one, it just keeps getting bigger & bigger with new ideas.

Anything involving an FCB-1010 takes a concerted effort; maddingly so without using one of the editors.  No UnO chip here, so that may help to streamline the process.  The cost, switch spacing, banks & surprisingly good build quality make it a great option for live looping, though.  Mine is pretty much dedicated to harmonized guitar variations right now, but I can probably tap the THRU to see what’s going on with a multi-Looper focus.

I don’t know that there’s a way around MIDI-only.  The problem there is mapping the Page 3 & Page 4 Performance Parameters individually, and also for simultaneous triggering.  It took some brain-busting to settle on paging the onboard switches + Aux switches (or MIDI) for triggering both Loopers together.

I didn’t mention the latest updates, but that certainly makes a big difference.  The 1-BTN LOOP … I added those as another ‘paging’ option, but I still have my issues with reliable triggering there.  It’s a complex application of algorithms that’s going to take some work to customize, but it sounds like you’re up for the task to reap the rewards.

A couple quick notes:  you can edit here at this forum, but you have to be fast.  A few minutes to review & re-submit, with little or no chance for a 2nd try at it.  Your Bypassing concept triggered another thought.  Not applicable in a direct sense, but it may be useful to you later on.  Bottom of this link here:

https://www.eventideaudio.com/forums/topic/granular-capture-playback-h9-timefactor-looper/#post-147370

Back in the Dark Ages – before extra-long looping, multiple instances & separated Rec & Play Speeds, I did a lot of deep dives into the H9 Looper, and many of those concepts still apply (with a few modifications required, specific to the H90).

[Mydingling]

Correction to my previous comment in case anyone reads this later: Play Speed needs to be at 50% not Record Speed! (No edit functionality on this board it seems)

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