H90 Triad Voicing Harmony

[scorpiknox]

I am thinking about buying an H90 but need to know if it can voice triads like the old DigiTech HarmonyMan and the EHX Intelligent Pitch Shifter could/can.

According to the documentation, the polyphony algo has a setting called -Tri and Tri but there is no description given in the manual and I cannot find a demo.

This is a pretty obvious feature that was shockingly missing from the H9.

Any insight would be appreciated, thanks!

[Lorpal]

Could you not get triads on the h9? The was an arpeggiator and a multi tone pitch flex (quadrivox?)

[joecozzi]

scorpiknox wrote:

I need to know if it can voice triads like the old DigiTech HarmonyMan and the EHX Intelligent Pitch Shifter could/can.

The H90 does not have Triad-Centered Shifting like the Harmony Man. It’s not available on the EHX Intelligent Harmony Machine either. In other words, there isn’t any type of chordal progression analysis to generate harmonies.

scorpiknox wrote:

According to the documentation, the polyphony algo has a setting called -Tri and Tri but there is no description given in the manual and I cannot find a demo.

”Tri” stands for tritone intervals above and/or below the root note.

[joecozzi]

Lorpal wrote:

Could you not get triads on the h9? The was an arpeggiator and a multi tone pitch flex (quadrivox?)

There are many algorithms where generating triads are possible on both the H9 and H90. Most algorithms give you the ability to add two (Diatonic, H910/H949) and up to four notes (QuadraVox) on top of the root note. You’re able to choose intervals that will create triads and also in key.

[Lorpal]

Yes – that’s what I’m saying. I don’t understand why he can’t get triads. Diatonic will even change the third on the fly to keep them in key…

[scorpiknox]

Triad-Centered Shifting like the Harmony Man

Yes this is what I am looking for. I wasn’t specific enough in my original post, sorry. I have not played with the EHX intelligent pitch shifter, but a demo video seems to show this feature or something pretty close.

Any chance Eventide would add Triad-Centered Shifting to the H90? It’s SO, SO awesome. In fact it’s so awesome I am stuck with a 5 pound red brick with no midi control on my pedal board for the foreseeable future. It’s wild that no company has done that since DigiTech as far as I can tell.

Another thing that would be great would be the ability to directly program harmonies note-for-note. Say I want to have specific harmonies for a lead line with intervals that vary based on the note played, or have the harmonizer double or ignore low notes like for thrash. Is that something the H90 can do now or in the future? That’s kinda the holy grail for me to recreate stuff I record on records live.

[Lorpal]

Have you tried diatonic? It seems to me that it is essentially the same as the harmony man triad centred mode – just plug in what you want but it will give you two harmonies if you like. Set your scale and it will follow the key.

[scorpiknox]

Unfortunately diatonic is not the same as triad centered voicing. Triad centered voicing switches the harmonies depending on the note played. It’s so musical sounding you honestly wouldn’t believe it.

Here’s the manual:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/380763/Digitech-Harmonyman.html?page=18#manual

And the shifting tables for C Maj and Amin

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/380763/Digitech-Harmonyman.html?page=21#manual

Here’s an example of it being used in a recording:

 

I’m almost positive it would be a simple algorithm to recreate for Eventide’s developers. Just apply the business logic to the Diatonic algorithm for an easy win!

[Lorpal]

Unless you are using the side chain to detect chords – diatonic can easily get you to what’s going on in that recording. You can do thirds – it changes minor 3rd or major 3rd depending on the key you set it to. You would of course have to pre-program it to the key of the song and could change presets or maybe the hot knob to change keys while you play.

also – diatonic will give you two harmonies should you want instead of just one.

 

for reference – here’s a quick screen shot of one of the algos.

 

[udi9]

@scorpiknox I think your suggestion for custom scales would be much better than the triad/chordal voicings. With custom scales you could just program anything you want.

For a device that is called the H90 Harmonizer, I was actually pretty surprised that this is not a part of the Diatonic algo.

I just want to play Satriani’s ‘Why’….please help me dear Eventide 🙏🏻

[udi9]

@Lorpal it’s not the same thing. If you look at the chart @scorpiknox posted, you’ll see that when you play a C note the harmony man will add an E and a G (3rd and 5th) but when you play a D note the harmonizer will add an F and a B.
If you set the Diatonic algo for 3rd and 5th up, the C note harmony will be the same, but when you’ll play a D note the H90 will add an F and an A.

[brock]

… I think your suggestion for custom scales would be much better than the triad/chordal voicings. With custom scales you could just program anything you want. For a device that is called the H90 Harmonizer, I was actually pretty surprised that this is not a part of the Diatonic algo …

I’ve been a proponent of this idea since the PitchFactor days.  I don’t think it’d be out of the realm of possibility in the H90.  The question remains:  How to get the custom scale entered in?  I still say the most painless method would be MIDI Note entry, or playing in a bar or two sequence of MIDI Notes.

… I just want to play Satriani’s ‘Why’….please help me dear Eventide 🙏🏻

Embrace MIDI.  You can probably get there with enough Aux switches; two sets of 3.  I prefer two CCs stacked on a single switch.  Simple, foolproof, repeatable.  For pitch axis “theory” – with a pedal point – one CC message.

https://www.eventideaudio.com/forums/topic/pitchfactor-key-toggling-over-midi/#post-123733

 

[udi9]

@brock, MIDI note entry is a great idea.
TBH, as a far as I’m concerned, entering the custom scales can be an H90 Control only option.

I actually remember that MIDI toggling post of yours from back in the day! very creative. but I want something simple, with a set-and-forget approach.

I recall when the H9000 came out, a lot of users were asking for custom scales, and it wasn’t added for years. I’m not sure if they ended up adding that?
I think I read somewhere that it was more complicated than it looked (something to do with the new device architecture maybe?), but I might be wrong.

[brock]

Not to stir the pot too much, but I believe it was more along the lines of a 10 parameter paradigm, hardware limitations, and backward compatibility concerns.  In the earlier stompboxes, that is …

[udi9]

I was actually referring to the H9000.

Found this thread:

Can’t find the Ultra Pitch Shifter algorithms in the H9000 manual’s list

[Lorpal]

Pretty sure that is how diatonic works – otherwise the scale would not be relevant and you would use a different algo that uses relative pitch and not harmonic pitch as outlined in the algo notes below. I will have to test you assertion Udi. Perhaps it behaves as you say. Root should have M3 interval, 2nd should have m3 interval, 3rd should have m3 and so on (if a major scale is selected).

 

[Lorpal]

I now see what you are saying UDI (had to grab my bass to visualize the arpeggios properly) but the correct 5th in the D triad is A (in c maj)

[udi9]

@Lorpal, you are correct that this is how the Diatonic algo works, and it does shift the intervals according to the selected key.

However, the Harmony Man is adding different intervals to some notes. In the case of C maj for example (when choosing the high voicings) it adds the 3rd up and 5th up when the root note is played, but for the rest of the notes it adds the 3rd and the 6th. It also changes when using the low voicings – when the root note is played it adds the 4th down and 5th down, but adds the 3rd and 6th down for the rest of the notes.

[udi9]

For the low voicings it adds the 4th and the 6th down for the root note, not the 5th.

Sorry for the typo.

[scorpiknox]

Good discussion here, and the CC midi technique is pretty brilliant, @brock. But I am a one button guy as I am also singing while playing. My midi is set-up to make my life very simple, one stomp and that’s it. It’s all I can do to sing and play without messing up too badly, so I can’t really mess around with tap-dancing.

I’ve been a proponent of this idea since the PitchFactor days.  I don’t think it’d be out of the realm of possibility in the H90.  The question remains:  How to get the custom scale entered in?  I still say the most painless method would be MIDI Note entry, or playing in a bar or two sequence of MIDI Notes.

I think it’s a job for the app. Presumably if you’re going to tackle custom harmony intervals, you’ll have the wherewithal to use the application interface.

It’s really too bad the H90 doesn’t have triad centered voicing or the custom harmonies. I’ll just hold on to my H9 since I mostly use it reverb and delay and the H90 doesn’t really add anything I need for my use case.

@udi9, thanks for explaining the triad centered voicing.

[Lorpal]

One workaround would be to set harmony two to be a 6th instead the correct triad tone of the fifth (so that it matches the harmony man’s “triad” voicing) and use a hot switch on the expression pedal input to change it to the fifth. That way you always get the correct third and can change it to the fifth for the root note with a simple tap – or any note within the scale for that matter. You then get actually more functionality (minus the chord auto sensing)

[brock]

Lorpal wrote:

One workaround would be to set harmony two to be a 6th instead the correct triad tone of the fifth (so that it matches the harmony man’s “triad” voicing) and use a hot switch on the expression pedal input to change it to the fifth. That way you always get the correct third and can change it to the fifth for the root note with a simple tap – or any note within the scale for that matter. You then get actually more functionality (minus the chord auto sensing)

Not to belabor the point, but here’s another angle to stack on the discussion.  Adding hardware comes with its own set of issues, but an EHX 8 Step Program works perfectly in this scenario.  (One EXP pedal here is configured as a passthrough).

• Program the maximum range of intervals you want (and / or key) as an expression pedal mapping.
• Adjust each the 8 sliders to the selected sets of intervals, in a sequence.
• Use the Step mode for one-switch tapping through the 1-8 pairs.
• If more than 8 interval pair steps are required, cue up the next PC.
• MIDI isn’t necessary, but the 8 Step has a very deep implementation, including remote triggering and per-slider values.

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