H9000 Clocking questions

[bigisland]

Hi folks.

I’m about to take the plunge into the world of H9000R but need to get some questions clarified…

I plan to mainly use this box as 4 separate digital machines showing up as plugins (via emote au) in LPX when writing and mixing (occasionally also in Bitwig and ProTools) and to make that happen I need to go via the usb connection if I understand it correctly. The unit then needs to be part of my aggregate audio and midi setup in order for this to happen and that’s where the ins and outs will show up (once again, if I understand it correctly).

I have a bunch of digital gear all hooked up to my rig and all of them are clocked via an external master word clock and they are accessible via I/O plugins in the software I use without any issues.

Now this is where I’m a bit confused after reading through various posts on various forums… Will there be an issue when I want to set this unit to be a slave to the master word clock chain when at the same time it is being operated via usb? Some posts indicate that…

Once clocking is defined will the unit remember it? Heard stories of folks having to define clocking settings for each session…

Will the fx´s within the plugin be stored until next time i open the project or do I need to store it elsewhere as well?

 

Thanks

Jacob

[tbskoglund]

Hi Jacob, 

 

To answer your questions: 

 

Emote is just the control software for the H9k; it does not automatically route audio connections when an instance of the plug-in is placed on an audio track. When using Emote as a plug-in in your DAW, only one instance is needed and all of your audio routing from the DAW to the H9k will need to be done the same way you would when using any external hardware processor. In Logic, this will be using the “I/O Utility.”

 

Yes, you can use the H9k as 4 separate stereo processors as you described. This doesn’t necessarily need to be done using the USB audio; the H9k has 8 analog I/O and up to 8 digital I/O using ADAT or AES/EBU. If you use the H9k as part of an aggregate device with your audio interface, the USB I/O will now show up alongside your audio interface’s I/O in your DAW. 

 

You can clock the H9k externally via word clock as part of an aggregate device without any issues. When using USB audio, the H9k will show up as an audio interface labeled “H9000 USB Audio” in your Mac Audio/MIDI setup page. The H9k USB audio has a separate clock from the H9k’s internal clock, and the H9k USB audio has to be set manually in your Audio/MIDI setup page; it cannot follow an external clock source such as word clock. So, if you change your sample rate on your audio interface or DAW, the H9k and all of your other synced equipment will follow the clock of the interface, but the H9k USB audio will need to be changed manually or there will be a sample rate mismatch. When there is a sample rate mismatch using the USB audio, you will get an error message that says "USB audio muted" and you will need to correctly match the sample rates to unmute the USB audio. 

 

When using the H9k in an aggregate device setup, you will need to make sure the sample rate of your H9k, the audio interface/daw, aggregate device, and H9k USB audio are all at the same sample rate. This may sound complicated but it is pretty easy once you get used to it. Having your H9k clocked from the audio interface makes it a bit simpler too. 

 

The H9k does not currently have global clock settings, you will have to determine the clock source for each session. However, when you load a new session you are given the option to keep your current clock source settings, so you won’t need to be setting the clock source every time if you choose keep your clock settings. 

 

When you load a DAW project and connect to Emote, you will be prompted to load the H9k session data for that particular DAW project. We also recommend to save all of your data as a session on the H9k itself in the event that the DAW project gets corrupted or there is an issue with loading the data. 

 

Let me know if that clears everything up for you and I’d be happy to answer any other questions that might help you take the plunge! 

 

Thanks,

Tyler

[tbskoglund]

Hey Jacob, 

Glad that you have a better understanding now. 

Using the digital I/O from your MOTU with the H9k will definitely be an easier way to set it up. You won't need to do any of the above USB sample rate steps, you will just send audio to/from the appropriate I/O on the audio interface and H9k and thats pretty much it. 

Another thing to clarify; the H9k does not connect to Emote via USB. The USB connection is only for using the H9k USB audio feature. Emote can connect to your H9k via a direct ethernet connection, a networked connection using an ethernet cable from your router, or wirelessly using the included Wi-Fi dongle. If your rackmounted gear is not near your computer, the easiest way to connect would probably be with the Wi-Fi dongle.

[bigisland]

Understood.

An ethernet cable would be faster and more reliable than wifi, wouldn’t it..?

[bigisland]

Ethernet straight to the box sounds good.

Plunge taken.

[jlchicote]

Thanks for clear it up, Jacob.

Something I don’t get: I never change the FS, it is always at 48 KHz in my studio. When I begin to work after a power cycle, the H9k shows 48 but the USB audio doesn’t work until I change it. I have to change to 41, then again at 48 and then it works. If I don’t do that it shows the FS mismatch. The digital part is clocked to AES input and it works perfectly without issues.

Kind regards

[bigisland]

Tyler.

Are there any specific recommendations from your end regarding ethernet? 

I run a MacPro cheese grater 4.1 updated to 5.1 with macOS 10.14.6 and I was just in touch with Motu and nowadays they only recommend using usb/thunderbolt to connect their gear to the computer. This is due to Apple not really supporting avb solutions anymore. 

Is this something I need to take into the equation in regards to the H9K?

/Jacob

[bigisland]

Tyler.

Just want to clarify one more thing…

To have Emote talk to the H9k via midi is not an option?

[DeWalta]

Hi,

I have bene using the H9000 as an aggregate device on a Mac mini Intel i7 fairly reliably in the past. After having upgraded to an M1 Pro Mac I am experiencing issues such as audio dropouts via the the H9000 as aggregate device in combination with an Apollo X16 in the Ableton LIVE DAW. All Applications and VSTs, AUs etc running natively.

My H9000 is being clocked via the analog Word Clock connection from the Apollo X16 as a SLAVE and the signal is physically being terminated at the input of the H9000 with T-shaped word clock termination plug.

Now:

is it recommended to use Word Clock at all, or is Word Clocking potentially even harmful for this (aggregate device)setup? Can the H9000 be the SLAVE as the Apollo is my main converter or does it requite to be the MASTER via Word Clock?

Further, Are there any known issues with aggregate devices under Monterey 12.4? Are there any known issues with Thunderbolt Docks such as the CalDigit TS4? It it recommended to use a more direct USB connection to the M1 Computer for more stability?

Thank you!

[tbskoglund]

Hello,

You should be able to connect Apollo to the H9000 via Word Clock without the T-piece terminator. I have connected these devices in this way without any issues. However, if you have always connected them in this manner with the T-piece without any issues, you can leave them as is.

Yes, I would recommend clocking the devices via Word Clock when using an aggregate device. Otherwise, you are leaving the clocking entirely up to the aggregate device, and some users find this unreliable with any devices, not just the H9000. Either device can work as the clock source, so having the H9000 follow the Apollo is not a problem. In the Audio Midi setup page, you should uncheck the “drift correction” box for all devices, since this is not necessary when you are physically clocking the devices using Word Clock.

There shouldn’t be any difference between using an aggregate device with an M1 machine or a machine running a newer OS, so I’m not sure why you would now be having issues if you didn’t before. We’ve tested the H9000 USB driver with macOS 12 and M1 machines and have not experienced anything strange, but when using an aggregate device there is always a chance of something not working reliably.

Usually if a USB hub does not work with an H9000, the H9000 USB device will simply not show up, but it’s possible that this could be a factor in the issue so you could try a different method of connecting the H9000 to your computer.

Let me know if that helps.

 

 

[bigisland]

tbskoglund wrote:

Hi Jacob, 

 

To answer your questions: 

 

Emote is just the control software for the H9k; it does not automatically route audio connections when an instance of the plug-in is placed on an audio track. When using Emote as a plug-in in your DAW, only one instance is needed and all of your audio routing from the DAW to the H9k will need to be done the same way you would when using any external hardware processor. In Logic, this will be using the “I/O Utility.”

 

Yes, you can use the H9k as 4 separate stereo processors as you described. This doesn’t necessarily need to be done using the USB audio; the H9k has 8 analog I/O and up to 8 digital I/O using ADAT or AES/EBU. If you use the H9k as part of an aggregate device with your audio interface, the USB I/O will now show up alongside your audio interface’s I/O in your DAW. 

 

You can clock the H9k externally via word clock as part of an aggregate device without any issues. When using USB audio, the H9k will show up as an audio interface labeled “H9000 USB Audio” in your Mac Audio/MIDI setup page. The H9k USB audio has a separate clock from the H9k’s internal clock, and the H9k USB audio has to be set manually in your Audio/MIDI setup page; it cannot follow an external clock source such as word clock. So, if you change your sample rate on your audio interface or DAW, the H9k and all of your other synced equipment will follow the clock of the interface, but the H9k USB audio will need to be changed manually or there will be a sample rate mismatch. When there is a sample rate mismatch using the USB audio, you will get an error message that says “USB audio muted” and you will need to correctly match the sample rates to unmute the USB audio. 

 

When using the H9k in an aggregate device setup, you will need to make sure the sample rate of your H9k, the audio interface/daw, aggregate device, and H9k USB audio are all at the same sample rate. This may sound complicated but it is pretty easy once you get used to it. Having your H9k clocked from the audio interface makes it a bit simpler too. 

 

The H9k does not currently have global clock settings, you will have to determine the clock source for each session. However, when you load a new session you are given the option to keep your current clock source settings, so you won’t need to be setting the clock source every time if you choose keep your clock settings. 

 

When you load a DAW project and connect to Emote, you will be prompted to load the H9k session data for that particular DAW project. We also recommend to save all of your data as a session on the H9k itself in the event that the DAW project gets corrupted or there is an issue with loading the data. 

 

Let me know if that clears everything up for you and I’d be happy to answer any other questions that might help you take the plunge! 

 

Thanks,

Tyler

Hi Tyler and thanks for clarifying.

I now understand more on how the emote works. Its basically the same as my exponential audio control software for my Bricasti. I load up the controller plugin which controls the parameters in the m7 (via midi) and then I do the audio routing via the Logic I/O plugin. Very straight forward.

I use a Motu 112d for all my digital gear and the question I have now is whether the H9k will be more stable/solid/easier to use if I use it as part of the digital setup within the the 112d (and subsequently using the usb setup only for controller data) or using it as an aggregate device sending both controller data and audio thru usb…

My original plan was to go with it as part of the 112d and have it be clocked from my master digital clock….

Also, my studio is oldskool in the sense that my gear is behind me meaning I would need a 10m usb cable. Is that an issue? Would doing the emote solution via midi be better?

 

/Jacob

[tbskoglund]

bigisland wrote:

Understood.

An ethernet cable would be faster and more reliable than wifi, wouldn't it..?

A direct ethernet connection from the computer to the H9k is the most reliable connection since this eliminates any possible network issues. 

Ethernet connections are also easier to setup when using an R unit. 

[tbskoglund]

bigisland wrote:

Tyler.

Are there any specific recommendations from your end regarding ethernet? 

I run a MacPro cheese grater 4.1 updated to 5.1 with macOS 10.14.6 and I was just in touch with Motu and nowadays they only recommend using usb/thunderbolt to connect their gear to the computer. This is due to Apple not really supporting avb solutions anymore. 

Is this something I need to take into the equation in regards to the H9K?

/Jacob

I don't believe we've had any reports of H9k users having connection issues with MacPro cheese grater machines, and I don't think there would be any issues with your setup since Emote 2.0 is supported for macOS 10.11+ and the H9k is supported for working with an ethernet connection.

 

[bigisland]

tbskoglund wrote:

bigisland wrote:

Tyler.

Are there any specific recommendations from your end regarding ethernet? 

I run a MacPro cheese grater 4.1 updated to 5.1 with macOS 10.14.6 and I was just in touch with Motu and nowadays they only recommend using usb/thunderbolt to connect their gear to the computer. This is due to Apple not really supporting avb solutions anymore. 

Is this something I need to take into the equation in regards to the H9K?

/Jacob

I don’t believe we’ve had any reports of H9k users having connection issues with MacPro cheese grater machines, and I don’t think there would be any issues with your setup since Emote 2.0 is supported for macOS 10.11+ and the H9k is supported for working with an ethernet connection.

 

Good to hear.

 

[tbskoglund]

jlchicote wrote:

Thanks for clear it up, Jacob.

Something I don't get: I never change the FS, it is always at 48 KHz in my studio. When I begin to work after a power cycle, the H9k shows 48 but the USB audio doesn't work until I change it. I have to change to 41, then again at 48 and then it works. If I don't do that it shows the FS mismatch. The digital part is clocked to AES input and it works perfectly without issues.

Kind regards

Sorry for the confusion with this. The H9000 is the USB clock source and determines the sample rate, but this information is not automatically communicated to the computer. That is why when you restart your equipment and everything is at the correct sample rate, you will still need to toggle the H9000 USB Audio sample rate to fix the USB audio mute. We may try and change this in the future, but toggling the H9000 USB Audio sample rate is the recommended solution for now.

[tbskoglund]

bigisland wrote:

Tyler.

Just want to clarify one more thing…

To have Emote talk to the H9k via midi is not an option?

Emote can only be connected via ethernet or using the WiFi dongle. 

You can send MIDI from your computer/DAW to the H9k using USB or the MIDI DIN connectors, but that is not the same as connecting to Emote. 

Since you are using an H9000R, you will need either an ethernet or WiFi connection from your H9k to the computer for any operation. 

[bigisland]

tbskoglund wrote:

bigisland wrote:

Tyler.

Just want to clarify one more thing…

To have Emote talk to the H9k via midi is not an option?

Emote can only be connected via ethernet or using the WiFi dongle. 

You can send MIDI from your computer/DAW to the H9k using USB or the MIDI DIN connectors, but that is not the same as connecting to Emote. 

Since you are using an H9000R, you will need either an ethernet or WiFi connection from your H9k to the computer for any operation. 

Thanks for clarifying.

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