Midi Controllers for H8000FW

[krcassid]

Well, I ponied up to the H8000FW from my Orville. It is awesome as expected. However, I am still struggling with same issue brought up in earlier post: how to create/ call up "presets" with different wet/ dry mixes, both live and in studio. Orville/ H8000 are the 1st devices I've worked with that have wet/ dry mix as a global setting. Even Eclipse and 3500 had wet/ dry on every preset. Italo suggested earlier that I get a midi controller that can save presets with different values for wet/ dry mixes. However, none of the foot controllers sem to have the ability to "save"CC changes in presets, only to allow real-time expression pedal control. Desktop Controlllers ("I" suggested Peavey) are almost alll designed to work with PC/USB and are not stand-alone devices that can save preset values with specific cc values (some have limited, IE 30 presets–I need a lot more). So, here's my problem. I really need some help here to make this wonderful device work for me. I am using H8000 with multiple guitar rigs simultaneously (utilising different I/O combos). I need to be able to "save" presets (patches), say a simple delay, at 20% wet for one song, 50% wet for a 2nd, 100% wet for a 3rd… How can I do this live, or even in studio? I have a number of keyboard devices that will do this utilizing PC/Mac but I don't want a PC in the mix. I need a device that will save the preset with the specific wet/dry mix (for both DSP A & B) with the preset since H8000 cannot do this. Thanks in advance for any help! Kevin

[IDeangelis]

 Kevin

the pEavey doesn't need any computer/USB. It works on MIDI connectors and can store 100 presets!

In addition to this, I'd take a serious look to the MIDI Virtual Racks presets (H8000) where all parameters can be stored and remoted w/a single CC message. Check the presets manuals last pages for an in depth description.

all the best

I 

[krcassid]

Thx I.

Unfotunately, the Peavey is not available anymore.  I checked through dozens of other midi controllers (almost all are USB anymore) and none I could find really fit the bill.  I found one with 34 presets.  There are some great USB controllers out there but I really don't want to have a computer in the mix.  I looked at the Midi virtual racks and they are good, but not complete enough.  I really need access to all presets, not a handful.  This seems so odd to me that there is not an easy solution to this.  Doesn't nearly everybody using 8000FW in series need acess to wet/ dry parameters by preset?  Best solution I've found so far (in this Forum) is the Behringer FCB1010.  This is a foot controller that allows you to send 2 fixed CC changes per preset.  It will hold 100 presets.  This solves live issue but is not a good solution for desktop tweaking (interface is a pain).  Ideal solution would be something exactly like your Peavey–Desktop controller that does not require PC and has preset memory.  Anybody have any ideas?  Thx!

[J20056]

krcassid,

I don't think you're right about the FCB1010's programming, you have it backwards. In fact, the main reason I like it is because it has a great PC Editor, whereas programming it without a PC is a real pain. In any case, even for live applications, once it's programmed, you don't need the PC as it's uploaded in the PROM or something. I use 2 FCB1010's in series so I can control my H7600, a Switchblade and a Mesa TriAxis.
With Italo's Orville MIDI codes, you can program every single button on the h7600, and I'm sure the H8000. Off course, you can also control wet/dry if the preset has it built in. I don't know if you can control the global wet/dry via MIDI, but it's true that usually you don't want your dry sound going through any FX unit, but you must have a very good reason.
Anyways, if you get a 1010, I'm happy to send you an example of a PC Editor file to control the Eventide.

[krcassid]

Thx!  You are correct.  I think I didn't make myself clear.  I just don't want to deal with the PC live.  The behringer has the ability to control 2 fixed CC values.  This will do what I need.  I actually sent you a private message because you were the one who illuminated me on the 1010 in previous post.  I got mine today.  I also found a used Peavey,  It will control (and store) up to 16 fixed CC values.  I was unaware that there is a PC editor for 1010.  It's not from Peavey, right?  I see they refer to a piece of 3rd party software (ripwerks).  Is this what you are referring to? Can you tell me (send me) what you use to edit 1010/Eventide on PC?  My 8000 should be pretty similar to Orville.  This would be a huge help.  Thx!

[J20056]

The PC Editor can be found on the Yahoo Users Group for the FCB1010. I highly recommend this user group. Check the files section. ripwerks is a more portable, but more involved editor for Mac. I hope you have a PC, which the PC Editor I mention requires.
Now, although there are only 2 CC's, I found a GREAT little software called Bome's MIDI Translator, which can be inserted in my MIDI loop. Basically, what it does, is upon any program change request, you can send an additional MIDI message of any length, including I assume as many CC's as you may want. The problem is that it requires that the PC is present for a live application. But I found it really great to enable me to control the Eventide H7600 via the Orville messsages that Italo had sent. Unfortunately, the 1010, or no other pedal that I know, seems to have the ability to send longer messages, such as MIDI F0 1C 70 01 01 0F 0B 0F 0F 0F 0F 0F 0F F7 which corresponds the the Eventide Soft Key #1 for instance. So to be fully clear, the 1010 by itself is not capable of controlling the Eventide buttons and menus (except of course the standard MIDI interface inherent in each preset), and you need somehting like Bome Translator. But the nice side effect is that you can probably embed additional CC messages in Bome Translator, maybe even 16.
I can try if you think that's a route you'd like to explore, just let me know. Bome's software is like 30 bucks, no biggie, and trivial to use.
Also, if you want to go big, there is a European company called Gordius, and they have a hardware module to enhance the FCB1010 called the Little Giant, that adds basically unlimited functionality to the 1010. The nice thing is that you could use it live without a PC once properly setup. It's expensive though, like 300 Euros.
Anyways, let me know once you get the PC Editor. I can send you my Eventide control file for it, but if you don't have Bome's Translator, it might not give you the ability to control the Eventide to the full degree, although you did not ask for it.

[J20056]

BTW,
I did not receive a PM from you. If you give me your email, I can send you a zip file with the Behringer FCB1010 PC Editor. Once you're up and running, you would need to tell me what you want to control, although the Eventide units can easily be setup so that the 8 parameters on each menu page can be controlled by a continuous controller. Then it's easy to setup a FCB1010 patch such that pressing each stomp from 1 to 8 assigns the expression pedals to one of the 8, or actually you can do 4 groupings of 2 expression pedals if you don't need the other pedal for other gear.
The Eventide manual, although technical, explains how to do that. Kinda hard to put all the pieces the first time around, but I got it down now.

[krcassid]

Thx! I seem to be having some trouble with email as I didn't get notified of these posts–I just happened to check back. My spam filters may be catching stuff. This is FANTASTIC help! I've got the 1010 and Italo's Peavey PC1600x now. If you could send me the files you use, that would be HUGE! I put my email in my last post but it didn't come through (does moderator strip them out?). It is kevin@madetoorder.com. I'd love to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind. I've been asking these kinds of questions all over the place and haven't gotten any answers that show the experience level you obviously have. Italo brought something else to my attn which may really make this cool: I can use the 1010 into the Peavey live to call up scenes on the Peavey (which has virtually unlimited tweakability). The combination of these 2 decvices would definately seem to do everything you are suggesting w/o PC (I am PC, not Mac). The Peavey can send long sysex streams and controls up to 16 parameters. I got mine from a guy in Canada for $175 but I saw one listed on Ebay tonight (they are very hard to find). I'm hoping my email address remains in this post so you can contact me. I'll also try PMing you again. Thanks!

[J20056]

I don't think I have that much experience, but I'm a programmer so at the end, I fight until s**t works. Anyhow, I emailed you the zip file for the 1010, check your mailbox. You should really join the FCB1010 Yahoo Users Group which is where I found it. The user interface is pretty simple, you have 2 expression pedals to which you can assign device ID's, at least one for the Eventide, and possibly both. Another device ID will clearly be the Peavey. With each program, you can send a program change to as many as 5 device ID's.

Now, as far as loading the program into the 1010, it's explained in the user manual, but kinda funky. You must have the PC Editor file ready to be sent, then turn off the 1010, press on Down and turn it on, then ait for a while, press Up twice, then press on pedal 7, to put the 1010 in Sysex Rcv mode. I found that the PC Editor was unable to properly send the Sysex message, but solved the problem by using a free utility called SendSX by Bome. It's the same company that makes MidiTranslator, although you don't need the latter given the Peavey hardware. Once uploaded, press on Down for a while, then the 1010 displays counts down from 9 to 0 and you're good to go. If the display flickers funnily, that means the sysex dump was probably not successful. I don't know how to program the Peavey, but I assume you'll be sending your CC's via a program change sent by the 1010 or something?

As far as controlling the Eventide, as I said, I can send you a 1010 file, but at that point, it really depends on how you like the ergonomics. In my case, I setup one pedal for wet/dry mix, and another to control whichever of the 8 parameters is displayed in the Eventide menu. I have a second bank on 1010 patches dedicated to controlling the Evenride more closely, using the Orville Midi codes. Again, that may be achievable also with the Peavey, and you might not even care altogether, it's kinda cool, but a little nerdy.

 

The 1010 file I I also sent you is the one used to control my Eventide. Won't be customized enough for you, but a starting point.

Good luck!

 

[J20056]

krcassid,

my email to you with attachments was bounced, probably too large. You'll need to download the PC Editor from the FCB1010 Yahoo Users Group.

[krcassid]

Thx!  You shouldn't have been bounced from my email for anything < 5mb.  You may have been bounced as spam (our filters are very tight).  If you send me your email to my inbox on this forum, I can add you to the whtelist.  I will definately spend some time checking out the Yahoo group.  I found a PC editor there from mtnsys (about 1Mb).  Is this the one you're referring to?  It would be great to get the template you use to control Eventide.   I realize you may be controlling different things than I will but I bet they are largely the same.  I've been out on a project so I havn't had any time to mess w/ 1010 or Peavey but hope to get to it this weekend.  This is my problem: too many toys, not enough time!  Thx again for all your help!  Kevin

[krcassid]

Now that I loook a little closer, there are multiple PC editors (at least 3 that I can see)in the "Files" section.  Can you tell me which one you recccomend?  Thx!

[m@]

 I can't believe no one mentioned the Gordius Little Giant! By far the best and most flexible midi foot controller for the H*00! 

 

 

[J20056]

It's pretty expensive though, and made by a small company. Does it have a PC Editor?
What does it do that other controllers don't?

[m@]

 Yes, it's a small company, but my dealings with them have been super– the service is hands-down as good as any encountered in any company, large or small. The PC editor is full featured (I think you can download a free trial).

 In terms of capabilities that are not available on any other controller, the list is too long to go into. For starters, I have one setup which allows me to use one button to toggle between controlling processor A and processor B, where the other top 4 buttons select a Tweak (tweak name displayed on the floor!). Then, I've got a dedicated button mapped to tap tempo, and another… well, you get the idea. What do you imagine wanting to do?

-m@

[mb]

m@ – wrote… "What do you imagine wanting to do?"

Hi m@:

Here is, perhaps something different, that I must have in a midi foot controller:

First, before sending any data from the Gordius, I would have the h8000fw (parallel mode).
DSP A and B outputs defaulted to: -100 dB as a saved setup in the setups page.

Now from the Gordius.
I need to step on 1 button and have a sequence of midi commands take place, one after the other in some controllable manner:

First… Send two program change commands. One for DSP A and one for DSP B.
Keep in mind that DSP A and B must recieve these two, as well, all commands on two different midi channels.

2nd… Send a cc# (perhaps #7) in a stream, ie: (000 – 127) or (127 – to 000) over a certain period, variable anywhere between 25 m.sec and 500 m.sec. Those commands would be for DSP A, B outputs.

3rd… To repeat this process every time a swtch is pressed. However, at certain times,
the only difference would be to reverse the DSP outputs from full on to full off.

DSP outputs, prior to recieving a pgm ch. command, would always be at -100 dB, followed by pgm ch. command, then CC ramped-up to produce output @ 0 dB, then ramped down followed by pgm command, etc.
Thanks in advance
mb

[m@]

No problem. Check with Gordius for info on the latest featureset but this is all possible.

[billn]

M@ – Thanks for the tip about the Gordius Little Giant!  I purchased the "Big Little Giant" and have been really impressed with the product and support.  Hands down one of the best pieces of gear I have ever purchased!

[Author]

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