Need an editor for Eclipse! I’m alone?

[alce]

When you decide to make a sw to edit the Eclipse via midi like Midi Quest for example? Would be a very appreciate great help. I used this products in the past with some Lexicon unit and was very clear and easy to solve various problems. The brand solution for configuring the unit was just so bizarre as yours.

[Doug Wellington]

I've been making an editor for the Harmonizers.  I have an H8000 and a GTR4000 right now.  I am trying to find an Eclipse that I can borrow…

[alce]

Hi!

You are who made sw Vsig if not mistaken!

Of course I'd like to have a console software to manage the effects of my eclipse. I think that also affect other owners of the Eclipse. Having a console program means re costrursi new effects algorithms, even manage them better in a live situation using a computer. If you can drive it well within the parameters via midi do not see why it is not possible to make a sw which allows an easy and intuitive approach.

[Doug Wellington]

I did not make the original Vsig, but I am now taking care of the Macintosh OS X version.  (I do not work for Eventide, so please don't be upset with them if I am slow…)

I am trying to finish the first version of the remote control software by the end of November.  I hope it will help you and others…

Doug

[bazsa82]

Hi Doug,

Could you tell me when realise the Eclipse editor?

I wait for it curiously.  

Thanks!

Best Regards!

Bazsa82

[Doug Wellington]

A lot of things have happened in the last few months. (Most recently, my congresswoman was shot at the grocery store where I shop!)

I will start working on the editor again this week…

[bazsa82]

I so sorry…

Thanks the answers.

Best Regards!

Bazsa82

[razvan.stoicescu]

Hi Doug! We are all with you and we're all looking forward to seeing this application! If you need any kind of support please shout! 🙂

Best regards,

Razvan

[dereckn]

Very sorry to here of the news.

Will the Editor be for Mac or PC?

Thanks

Dereck

[Doug Wellington]

The first version is on the Mac, but I'm using tools that will hopefully make it easy to make a PC version.

[m0n0mania]

I'd even consider buying a Mac for that!

I hate trying to programme the Eclipse

[Doug Wellington]

m0n0mania:

I'd even consider buying a Mac for that!

Heehee, hopefully it won't come to that…

Quote:

I hate trying to programme the Eclipse

Good thing it sounds so good without programming! 

[m0n0mania]

True enough, I just feel such a flake using the presets ;0)

[Doug Wellington]

I know what you mean, I feel like such a flake playing piano, cause there's only one preset!

I originally bought a GTR4000 so that I could get into the serious programming side of things.  After working with that for a while, I *had* to buy an H8000 for pure programming satisfaction!

Once you start down the Harmonizer path, forever will it dominate your destiny! 

[m0n0mania]

I hear what you're saying Doug, I have to buy an H8000. This cheapo Eclipse rubbish is just a two grand toy, I need the big boys' stuff. If you can help me sell that to my wife, I'll sell a kidney and buy the "proper" Eventide.instead of the entry level nonsense.

[Doug Wellington]

ROFL!  Yeah, I'd love to figure out how to sell a lot of things to my wife!

Seriously though, the Eclipse isn't really *that* bad, is it?  Granted you can't program it the way you can the bigger Harmonizers, but it *is* a lot more affordable…

I know a guy here who uses two Eclipses in his performance rig.  And he's notoriously picky about his sound…

[m0n0mania]

Maybe I've just exhausted my patience for menu driven interfaces over the years. Let me see what's in there!

[m0n0mania]

Hey I've bought a Macbook, when can I get the editor

Been waiting years for this…

[mikeart]

My 2cents,

Like to be able to do most things available on the tiny Eclipse screen.

For starters :

To create a preset

To choose algorithms for that preset

Routing

Test the preset in realtime, if not ,later on

That's enough work in itself

You should ask for donations – at least

Good Luck, Those are my starting proposals

I've been waiting years for something like this

Regards,

Mike

[Doug Wellington]

Thanks for the input.  One of the first things I did in my remote control software was to scale up the screen dump display by a factor of two so that I could read it!

[mikeart]

Hi Doug,

How about a little taste to test?

I am an eclipse user looking for something good.

Like your remote control.

Maybe we could get some fantastic presets donated.

I know when people offer their creations, a lot of times they get

ripped when asking for cash.

I'd gladly pay for (quality) presets.

But people like things for free, so……..

Regards,

Mike

[Doug Wellington]

This is one of those projects where I'm doing something for myself, and I figure it has general appeal, so I'm willing to publish it without having to ask for money.  That, and I have a decent day job, so I don't have to worry about it…

I'm hoping that it will make it easier for everybody to contribute presets too, then we *all* win!

[alce]

I don't understand. What's the problems  to make a remote control software for the Eclipse? The availability of a graphical interface that allows you to set a comprehensive and clear parameters facilitates the development and management of preset algorithms. I know that unlike other firm, presets Eventide Eclipse presect can generate a lot of original combinations. A clear and graphic view of the components in the formulation helps those who have less technical knowledge.
But it seems that the staff of Eventide is deaf to these concepts of human – machine perched in their vision of 'technical product.

[nickrose]

Since it's clearly so easy, and Doug has other calls on his time, maybe you'd like to put in the time and write one. And by the way, nobody will want to pay for it.

We have far more things to do than we have people to do them – we are a small company and it is not possible to do everything everybody wants. Sorry. For this reason, we are very grateful to people like Doug who actually do things.

[Doug Wellington]

alce:

I don't understand. What's the problems  to make a remote control software for the Eclipse?

Have you ever written a program?  If so, I'd love to have you help out with this project so we can get it done sooner!  If not, well, I'd love to have you help out with this project so you could see what it takes…

Quote:

I know that unlike other firm, presets Eventide Eclipse presect can generate a lot of original combinations. A clear and graphic view of the components in the formulation helps those who have less technical knowledge.

Yes, the Eclipse Editor will make it easier to manage presets, but I think you'll still need a bit of technical knowledge to make a really good preset…

Regards,

Doug

[eegilbert]

Hi all.

I just picked up an Eclipse and so far everything is going great. I was able to update from 3 to 3.51 to 4.01 with no problems. The forums have been handy, definitely a good resource.

I was really sorry to read about the E-control developer that fell ill. I sincerely hope they were able to pull through!

Doug W., I read that you didn't have an Eclipse to test with. I'd be happy to assist trying out any software you would like to share with the community. I'm not a programmer, but I am very fluent with the Mac and networking. Thank you for taking your time to address this challenge. 

Erric

[Doug Wellington]

Thanks for the offer of help.  I just cut a check to buy an Eclipse so things are looking good!

[alce]

I think the number of users of the Eclipse is not so negligible, is now one of the more popular racks of musicians and studios. I do not think there should be difficulty in getting paid by a discrete number of users a small amount in order to better manage the interface via MIDI. I'm not a programmer but programmers work with the problem for those I have on hand is to study the world of MIDI commands and features of the Eclipse. The ability to interactively change the parameters so you can "play the effect" is one of the requirements that are emerging between who makes creative use and not just setting a specific sound.

[badmelonfarmer]

Hey Doug,

Glad you finally got the funds for an Eclipse and really looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Cheers

Martin

[filch]

Fantastic! Looking forward to this.

[dimbulb]

Me too!  The folks are lining up!

-jas

Albuquerque

[Doug Wellington]

OK, I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but I'm thinking about buying a tablet and maybe doing some software development on it.  So, should I get:

1) iPad?  (Take the blue pill, drink the Kool Aid, etc)

2) Samsung Galaxy TAB 10.1? (Android goodness)

If I could make the remote control and patch editor work on one of these things, which should it be?

[badmelonfarmer]

iPad

/discussion

Unless you are anti apple… Which I can understand… But Market penetration is easily in the iPads favour.

Imho android tablets have a long way to go in terms of Market impact

I have used both and I always love to get back to iPad.. Just an easier experience.

Also the android platform is way behind in terms of pro audio capabilities due to latency.

Cheers

Martin

[Doug Wellington]

I have had a love-hate relationship with Apple for a long time.  I was a system administrator for years in the government and academic worlds.  For a single dedicated user, the Mac was just fine, but when I had public-access Macs that were used by many people on a daily basis, it was a *horrible mess*!  I had to figure out where people had dragged files, what extensions had been installed or uninstalled, and why all the settings would change all the time.  I pretty much had to reinstall the OS every couple weeks on those things…

When Apple brought out OS X, I was very happy!  Finally, a *real* OS underneath the Mac GUI!  I'm an old FreeBSD guy anyway, so my loyalties ran pretty deep.  Especially when I got an intel-based Macbook and started running Windows XP under Parallels, I had the best of all worlds!

Now, in the last couple years it seems that the Apple focus has been on the various hand held devices.  Rightly so, judging by market share and capitalization, but it's almost as if Apple believes the Mac and OS X are purely a development environment for those devices.  It's similar to what has happened to all the major DAW platforms.  They all seem to be owned by larger entities that acquired them purely because they needed to check off some box on a list of corporate offerings.  The DAW products don't seem to have a life of their own any more…  (Reaper anyone?)

The question remains for me, do I develop for the market leader?  If that was the case, I would have been a Windows guy all those years ago.  Do I go for the underdog?  Funny how Apple *used* to be the underdog.  Now, however, I can't help but think that Steve Jobs is the big brother from the 1984 Mac ad…

[badmelonfarmer]

I can totally understand your points, I was a windows administrator for years, am actually an IT enterprise consultant by Profession…. not a developer though…purely infrastructure. I moved to Mac's at home as I have totally had enough of PC's by the time I get home, I ended up faffing in windows more than I did creating music…no regrets in moving to Mac …I can not see me going back for home use and like you say install a virtualization tool an you can have the best of both worlds,  although I am always surprised how little I use windows, in fact every time I do it has loads of updates to install as it has been so long LOL.

Coming from an IT Administration background (Active Directory, Group Policies, SMS, SCCM etc) I was really surprised at the lack of tools available to manage macs in an enterprise….it must be a nightmare, especially before OSX, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. unless you are in an environment like the apple stores where they seem to jump start them back to default every night. I also used to work for the country's largest cellphone network provider and beta tested lots of different platforms and units, so I have had exposure to most devices and platforms of the last 10 years in that capacity.

anyhoo, back to the question IOS v Android…

There are far more audio tools available for IOS, not just due to the market penetration, but also due to the lack of decent MIDI and AUDIO support in the Android framework.

I have read lots of discussion around the core audio and MIDI support in the OS is close fast enough to be useful in prosumer audio music setups…the latency is just horrible. People are always hoping that there will be improvement in the next release…but it has not happened so far.

The other issue with android is the fragmentation of devices, ie although the core OS is standard as soon as it gets to the vendor that add their own stuff which can be good and bad, different screen sizes, speed of processor etc…again there were some developments in the latest gingerbread OS that was supposed to address fragmentation,

Cheers

Martin

[dimbulb]

I used the windows platform at work for many, many years, but when the time came for me to fork out my own hard-earned cash for home use I went Mac laptop.  We also have an Ipad at home, so there goes my vote!

[m0n0mania]

iPad if its a straight either/or question, but whichever is the quickest would be my pref. Is the MacOS version happening in parallel or would this replace it?

[Doug Wellington]

This is independent of the programs I'm already developing on Mac and PC.  At this point, I have ruled out the ipad.  Looks like my development tools work on Android, so I wouldn't have to learn a different way of programming and limit myself to the  Apple world.

With iCloud, it seems like Apple is the new IBM.  That is, they have the mainframe mentality, meaning everything is stored somewhere on the mainframe/icloud and you access it with a "smart" terminal.  I'm sure everybody has a different idea of whether this is good or bad…

After thinking about this some more, I'm going to put the pad purchase on hold.  I just don't want to drink the kool aid right now…

[filch]

I'm not much a fan of apple myself really. I'm not drinking the kool-aid on tablets right now either. I'm waiting to see what the next generation does. I'm very curious about Amazon's tab coming end of the year, and the second revision of the ASUS eePad Transformer.

There is a LOT of headway being made on the android platform and music. There's a great article on Create Digital Music on free open source touch control for android

2011

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2011/07/on-android-free-open-source-touch-control-for-music-and-its-just-the-beginning/

[m0n0mania]

You could release it on Atari for all I care, I'd still use it!

[gkellum]

What development tools are you using?  I'd be surprised if Android is less of a jump for you than iOS.  From what I gathered from the developers at my last company who were working on Android, it forces you to define UI layouts in XML and implement your application logic in Java.  And if you're doing anything with audio you'll need to use the native bridge to load C/C++ libraries, because Java is not fast enough to do any real audio work.  And that's a pretty convoluted technology stack…  I suppose the audio part doesn't apply to this project though…  In any case you can write applications for iOS without having to learn Objective C and go about it the Apple specific way…  If you use Juce for example (http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce.php), you can write applications for both iOS and Android in C++…

[badmelonfarmer]

Doug Wellington:

OK, I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but I'm thinking about buying a tablet and maybe doing some software development on it.  So, should I get:

1) iPad?  (Take the blue pill, drink the Kool Aid, etc)

2) Samsung Galaxy TAB 10.1? (Android goodness)

If I could make the remote control and patch editor work on one of these things, which should it be?

Looks like the Android Tablet market is shrinking even more …. so it backs up the iPad is the way to go.

Android is making progress on smartphones, but not denting the tablet market.

[Doug Wellington]

I'm using QT for the user interface stuff along with a bunch of XML for module documentation and configuration.  The main application is done in C/C++, but the configuration is manipulated with Python.  JUCE is alright; I use a modified version of MIOS Studio 2 for analyzing communication with the Harmonizers.  It's great for hacking stuff together, but I just don't like the way JUCE apps look on screen.

At this point, I don't have any interest in audio directly on/from a tablet.  Everything I have done with audio has been on the Motorola 56k series chips (pardon me, I'm dating myself, it's now called the "Freescale Symphony"…) or the Blackfin.

[Doug Wellington]

badmelonfarmer:

Looks like the Android Tablet market is shrinking even more …. so it backs up the iPad is the way to go.

What makes you say that the Android tablet market is shrinking?  The stuff I've read seems to indicate it's the iPad that's losing market share.

Two things are happening:

1) Ice Cream Sandwich should be released in October

2) Steve the Wonderboy is stepping down.  I don't think Apple will be the same.

All the more reason for me to wait a while longer to see what happens…

[badmelonfarmer]

Hey Doug,

Reports I have read, analyst market reports, manufacturers scaling back on production etc.

I have an iPad personally, but think competition is vital. i am just not seeing anything from other manufacturers coming anywhere near as close.

From the start position, I guess Apple will always loose market share after being in such a dominent postion and to market earlier….

Galaxy tab has not really taken off in a big way, Play Book and the HP WebOS tablet …flops.

They are saying that Ice Cream Sandwhich is going to be a big leap forward…..but exactly the same thing was said about honeycombe.

All respectfully meant, not in a fanboy… I'm right your wrong way.

Cheers

Martin

[Doug Wellington]

I think it's an interesting time to be marketing anything.

A fundamental part of it for me is that I'm not a business looking for the most profitable development platform.  I'm a lone developer creating apps primarily for myself.  I'm not interested in what everybody else has unless it's inspiring to me.

It's fairly obvious to me that if I was aiming for a commercial app that was to be profitable, the iPad is the way to go.  I felt that way about Windows development before – if you wanted to sell a lot of product, you had to develop a Windows app.  I'm an old Unix guy, so at that time, I went with the Mac, partly because of the open source unix underpinnings, and partly because of the underdog nature of the platform and the exploration of possibilities that was part of the culture at the time.  It wasn't just boring corporate development.  Apple in general, and the iPad specifically, is not the underdog any more.  I guess I'm still looking for that spark, the creative difference, the "think different" thing that Apple used to have.

I guess that's somewhat how I feel about Eventide.  I mean, they created the most amazing effects unit ever, but it hasn't fundamentally changed for what, ten years?  That shows how great it was to start with, and it makes me wonder where it could be if they kept developing it.  The Factor Pedals are awesome, but how about a newer, more powerful, easier to use, top of the line unit?

[badmelonfarmer]

Hi Doug, 

Understand what you are saying about developing for yourself

Thats how I feel about making music now, I only do it for myself these days… i don't care if other people like it or not…. if they do cool, if not ….it does not pay the bills

Cheers

Martin

[Doug Wellington]

OK, I just drank the Amazon Kool-Aid. I'm on the waiting list for a Kindle Fire. Android it is.

[alce]

If anyone has seen or used Axe-Edit, or products MidiQuest, I think he would make the Eclipse an idea of ??what a car much more manageable. Even if connected via MIDI, I still do not understand why the Eventide has not yet thought of to make a sw to simplify the use of one of the best effects processors in the market. This would make the use sw to many simply as the pedals.

[Doug Wellington]

Got the Kindle Fire last week.  It's awesome.  I've applied to get the Kindle Development Kit.  In the mean time, I'm reading about Android programming…

[erikbojerik]

Oh dear – sounds like a tangent to the actual Eclipse editor.  Which would be awesome by the way, and this coming from someone fairly comfortable with tweeking it in the usual way.

[Doug Wellington]

It is a tangent indeed, but since I don't have a way to connect directly from the Kindle to the Harmonizer, I'm using my computer-based editor as a relay between the two…

[filch]

Asus Transformer 2 looks like a hit. This might be my foray into the tablet world.

[Doug Wellington]

Yes, I'm impressed with the Transformers.  I'll probably pick up a Prime next year myself…

And FWIW, I just renewed my T-Mobile contract and got a Samsung Galaxy S II… 

2012 is going to be *way* better than 2011 was…

[filch]

Transformer Prime TF700T –  1920 x 1200 resolution coming 2nd quarter of this year…

How's the editor for coming?

[Doug Wellington]

Well, my phone was on back order for a long time, but I just got it Friday.  Very nice, worth the wait!

A couple guys at work have the original Transformer and I'm very impressed with it.  With all the antenna problems, I'm glad I waited to see how the Transformer Prime worked out before ordering it.  Can't wait to see the 700 series in a few months; that's probably the one I'll buy.  It's going to be great as a front end to the Harmonizers.

[dereckn]

How is the editor going?

It sounds like the PC based editor is being replaced with some type of iPhone or Android App.

Intresting

Thanks

[Doug Wellington]

Still going.  Not replaced, well, at least not yet…

Regards,

Doug (and if you need an iPhone app, you'll have to find someone else, sorry…)

[cyanosaurus]

And please don't replace it 🙂 I'm one of those PC users and there are hundreds of us, waiting for that brilliant tool which would cheer up creativity very much, I'm sure. I have a great respect for someone who has the skills to program a software like that. Best wishes and let the sunshine be with you

[wilkinsi]

Whilst many will consider this expensive, have Eventide ever considered making a remote (similar to EveNet) for the Eclipse?

[nickrose]

We thought about it, but decided the likely price would put most people off. There are many MIDI solutions, which would hopefully be helpful.

[wilkinsi]

I use a MIDI to USB breakout cable by EMU for my synth, but never got Midiquest to work with it. My machine currently runs XP Pro, but I'm buying another computer soon which will have Vista on it. Presumably, this editor in the works will have drivers that work on that O/S? 

[badmelonfarmer]

Doug was talking about an OSX editor that would also work with Eclipse … But it has all gone quiet on this project unfortunately, so not sure if it has been shelved or not.

I have never seen any reference to a windows version being developed, might be wrong.

[wilkinsi]

I don't have a problem paying for a PC/MIDI editor (my PC doesn't have RS232), so bring it on.

[Rexx]

Midiquest 10 XL v10.0.5 for Windows doesn't support anything Eventide other than theold unsupported

H3000B.

Hard to believe there is no existing editor librarian for the Eventide Eclipse!

[Doug Wellington]

Yeah, sorry about that.  I am absolutely disgusted by Apple and have stopped developing software for both OS X and iOS.

My conjecture:  I have been starting to wonder if Jobs was angry about getting cancer and the idea that he couldn't absolutely control his own world, and if he then displaced that anger onto Google/Android/Samsung/the world/etc.  I don't know whether the current Apple management team is carrying on the battle in deference to his memory, or whether they don't have the skill Steve had at design, so they have to make up for it with litigation…?

As for a Windows version of the Eclipse editor, that might not be out of the question.  I have been working with QT, a cross-platform development tool, and a buddy told me I can get a free compiler for Windows, so I might give it a try.  I don't want my disgust with Apple to get in the way of my love for Eventide products…

[erikbojerik]

Doug I think it is a safe bet that Microsoft has also done their fair share of litigation – this is the hardball played by the largest companies in the world.  Par for the course.

[Doug Wellington]

Yes, as I mention on my site, I understand that you have to protect your intellectual property, but the ruling last Friday was the final straw for me with Apple.  For example, I saw the pinch to zoom thing in a TED talk something like a year before the iphone was released.  How did Apple get to claim that as their own?  Apple is a great integrator, but as far as I can tell, they haven't actually created any technology themselves; they have really just combined various technologies that they have found elsewhere.  (And done a fantastic job of simplifying/dumbing down to make it accessible, I might add…)  I wouldn't have my issues with Apple if they acknowledged their sources instead of claiming them as their own.

BTW, if you want to learn more about software lawsuits, I highly recommended: Groklaw.

Final note: as I point out on my site, I am a Linux programmer by trade, so I am merely retreating a step…

[mikeart]

Doug,

I am sorry that you have decided to give up on the OSX editor for the Eclipse.

It's been a long wait , and I am truly disappointed. I hope someone else takes over this project.

Regards,

Mike

[alce]

AudioMulch is an example of that would be the ultimate interface for eclipse even then controlled via midi. A sw environment with an interface so it would be much more intuitive, estimolerebbe mlto more imagination to develop new patch. See example on web http://www.audiomulch.com/info/what-is-audiomulch

[erikbojerik]

OK – I have seen the light, and saw what I think would be the IDEAL GUI editor for the Eclipse.

Check YouTube for the few videos demonstrating the softsynth Audulus.  

Subject to the routing rules contained in the Eclipse, and construction of the various UI modules for the Eclispe's DSP routines, this would be the perfect interface.  It would make Modulation Block connections very intuitive, much more so than now.  

[alce]

It has a graphical Audulus pretty enough, however, the basic idea is similar: to have the block diagram of the treatment process of the sound with the possibility of intervening in the individual blocks in the parameters of each. The display, although at the time it was quite sophisticated, midi sw today could make it a product still more current very powerful and sophisticated.

[erikbojerik]

I just caught a glimpse of the GUI for the H3000 Harmonizer plug-in.  It's all good until it gets down to the bottom where patching into and out of different effect modules & modulation block is a nightmare of crossed wires.  And this for a fairly simple preset, it would be a real rat's nest with some of the presets I have on the Eclipse.

That kind of thing would be sooooooo nice and easy with the Audulus-style GUI because you can move and position different effects & mod blocks so that the connections are much easier to visualize.  And Audulus is not the only plug to use this kind of layout.  If only…..

[erikbojerik]

I just got a look at the GUI for the H3000 Harmonizer plug-in (thanks for the email Eventide).  It is fine until you get to the internal routing, which the GUI represents as a nightmare of crossing wires.  

It could have been much better – like the attached screenshot of Audulus, the beauty of which is that you can drag and move around the various audio algorithms so that the signal chain is intuitive, easy to see – and creativity-inspiring.  Just imagine any audio source or instrument in place of the keyboard…

[erikbojerik]

I just got a look at the GUI for the H3000 Harmonizer plug-in (thanks for the email Eventide).  It is fine until you get to the internal routing, which the GUI represents as a nightmare of crossing wires.  

It could have been much better – like the attached screenshot of Audulus, the beauty of which is that you can drag and move around the various audio algorithms so that the signal chain is intuitive, easy to see – and creativity-inspiring.  Just imagine any audio source or instrument in place of the keyboard…

[erikbojerik]

Since just about any tweek on the Eclipse can be assigned to MIDI CC, I am thinking to try to make a GUI on my iPad using MIDI Designer.  But I might need to make a separate page for each patch (which might get annoying) unless there are enough CCs to go around to cover all the tweeks on all the algorithms.

[dereckn]

Hello Everyone,

Lawsuits aside, I hope this has not stopped progrees on an editor program. Is there any updates on a beta version for Windows yet?

Take care.

[wilkinsi]

This lack of an editor stopped bothering me ages ago. You just have to get used to the way the machine operates.

[Author]

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