Performance/hot switch activation by midi

[ChuckHanning]

Hi folks,
I use my h9 with Rjm pbc 10 and am trying to turn on and off the performance switch (cc16) via midi. I’ve got it working for h9 algorithms where it turn on when sent a value of 127 and off when sent 0. Additionally when I first call up a preset I added a cc command with the value to turn on. So that it works when that value is sent.

I have not been so lucky with time factor or pitch factor algorithms and haven’t even tried space or mod factor yet. I have taken same approach as above but instead of working after the preset is selected, I have the button (sending the on/off messages) At least three or four times before it starts to work. I know there had been posts in 2015 about midis implementation is slightly different for each of algorithms but has that been fixed yet? If so is there a standard in midi that always works?
Thanks!!!

[camn]

hey I can test this out for you if you want…. but I am a little unclear on what you are doing/looking for?

 

Is it just performance switch via midi on various algos?

[ChuckHanning]

I’m trying to figure out what midi commands to send from pbc10 to h9 for all five variants of the algorithms (h9 special, time factor, pitch factor, mod factor, and space). I have it worked out for h9 algorithms (cc toggle; 127 for on, 0 for off) and preset change also includes cc toggle to make sure it’s initially off . This works every time.
But I’m not so clear on what do for other four algorithms types. I’ve tried the same for pitch factor, time factor and space but it doesn’t work consistently. It seems to need to be pressed three to four time before midi messages start working. I haven’t tried mod factor yet.
Thanks!!!
Chuck

[brock]

To the best of my knowledge, the various algorithm categories still work like this:

https://www.eventideaudio.com/comment/21647#comment-21647

I’ll speculate that your initial CC value of 0 (immediately following the PC sent) could be screwing things up.  It may be getting ‘buried’ under the program change, anyway.  Scant milliseconds later.

[MattDrago]

I have been going through this thread and other similar ones and I still can’t figure out how to fix the problem with midi controlling the performance switch for timefactor based algorithms. I have tried setting the knob I’m using for midi control to toggle the midi CC value between 127 and 0, but for some reason the Repeat shows it is turned on and then immediately back off. I saw on another thread someone saying that the midi CC message for toggling the performance switch on TimeFactor algorithms is apparently the same for On and Off as well, and that seems to be exactly what’s happening to me. That thread was from 2015, but I haven’t seen any solution to this specific issue yet. Anyone know what I can do here?

[joecozzi]

This information is from a forum user named “Brock”:

Technically, the HotSwitch started with Space, plus H9 Special algorithms. Those algorithms turn on & off like this:

CC Number [0-99] + CC Value [64-127] = ON

CC Number [0-99] + CC Value [00-63] = OFF

It’s safe to say that the CC Value can be 127 for ON, and 0 for OFF. The ModFactor and PitchFactor algorithms act the same way, except it’s a more limited Performance Switch action [Brake; Slow/Fast, or Flex/Repeat].

CC Number [0-99] + CC Value [64-127] = ON

CC Number [0-99] + CC Value [00-63] = OFF

Where it gets dicey is in the TimeFactor-based algorithms. One CC value turns the Repeat function both ON & OFF. For argument’s sake, let’s call it a CC Value of 127 for ON.

CC Number [0-99] + CC Value [64-127] = ON.

CC Number [0-99] + CC Value [64-127] = OFF

One way to cover all of the bases is to have two separate MIDI switches for ON & OFF. One switch sends CC Value = 127, and the other sends CC Value = 0.

A single MIDI switch that alternates with each press between 127 & 0 values can cover any HotSwitch or Performance option, except for the TimeFactor algos.

[joecozzi]

In short, the TimeFactor algorithms expects the MIDI CC value to be above 64 to turn it on AND off.

A workaround would be to have an aux switch hooked up to your Unit mapped to the performance switch.

[camn]

I would bet this is a feature, not a bug, Matt. If you sent the right signals, you get the right behavior.

Probably I can help if you tell us exactly what you are trying to do…if your controller is suitably customizable. What controller are you using, and what messages are you sending?

[camn]

ok. So are you saying you send a single CC value of 127 on CC#15, and the repeat goes On and then OFF? Is this what is happening?

[camn]

maaan everbody wants stuff fixed till its time to fix stuff.

[Peter.Junker]

Ok, so I’m just building a MIDI Pedalboard with an arduino. Basically, I can assign any CC to a button. This is what I found out, after I had some issues that brought me here:

Sending CC101 (my HotSwitch CC) with value 127, no matter how very short, triggers the HotSwitch and turns it on. The HotSwitch would engage correctly but went into assign mode (blinking red led) every time. Basically the same as if I was holding down the physical HotSwitch button on the SPACE. That happens, because, if you don’t tell you computer to stop pressing the button, it will still “press” the button, even though the CC has only been sent for a single short instance… computers are dumb, so this weird “you didn’t tell me I could stop, so I just kept going” thing is going on.

But if I send CC101 with value 0 right after, it works like a charm. My code for this looks like this (C++ btw)

MIDI.sendControlChange(101, 127,2);  // send CC101 with value 127 to channel 3
delay(20);                                               // wait 20 milliseconds
MIDI.sendControlChange(101,0,2);       // send CC101 with value 0 to channel3

My FCB1010 couldn’t do it properly, or I couldn’t figure out how. There is a function for tap switches, but I hate programming the FCB1010, so now I’m DIYing my own MidiMonster :):)

[joecozzi]

MattDrago wrote:

I saw on another thread someone saying that the midi CC message for toggling the performance switch on TimeFactor algorithms is apparently the same for On and Off as well, and that seems to be exactly what’s happening to me.

As with any parameter or switch, you can assign which MIDI CC# will correspond to that function. Have you checked that a CC# is not assigned to both functions simultaneously?

Best recommendation I can give you is to connect your TimeFactor to H9 Control (either directly to a computer via USB or to a tablet using the USB camera adapter). In the Pedal tab, MIDI settings, Assign MIDI CC Messages, you can see what is currently assigned and make changes. This way you can ensure no two functions are getting confused.

[MattDrago]

joecozzi wrote:

MattDrago wrote:

I saw on another thread someone saying that the midi CC message for toggling the performance switch on TimeFactor algorithms is apparently the same for On and Off as well, and that seems to be exactly what’s happening to me.

As with any parameter or switch, you can assign which MIDI CC# will correspond to that function. Have you checked that a CC# is not assigned to both functions simultaneously? Best recommendation I can give you is to connect your TimeFactor to H9 Control (either directly to a computer via USB or to a tablet using the USB camera adapter). In the Pedal tab, MIDI settings, Assign MIDI CC Messages, you can see what is currently assigned and make changes. This way you can ensure no two functions are getting confused.

 

Yes that’s actually how I assigned it was through the H9 Control App. I made sure that nothing else was mapped to the same Midi CC, I have even tried 5 different midi CC values just to be absolutely positive and still the exact same thing is happening. I went into the settings through the pedal itself and sure enough, under the midi section in receive controls it shows the same midi CC value that I assigned in H9 Control. To be clear it works properly with every other algorithm without any issues, just the time based ones that have ‘Repeat’ for their performance switch function.

[MattDrago]

joecozzi wrote:

In short, the TimeFactor algorithms expects the MIDI CC value to be above 64 to turn it on AND off. A workaround would be to have an aux switch hooked up to your Unit mapped to the performance switch.

 

Gotcha, yeah that’s what I figured..well I don’t have an aux switch, only an expression pedal so I’ll have to think of something else. I know this is a small and really specific issue, but if Eventide could release an update with this patched that would make me so happy lol

[MattDrago]

camn wrote:

I would bet this is a feature, not a bug, Matt. If you sent the right signals, you get the right behavior. Probably I can help if you tell us exactly what you are trying to do…if your controller is suitably customizable. What controller are you using, and what messages are you sending?

 

I’m using an Akai Force with the Midi Out port going straight into the H9. There are assignable knobs that I mapped different midi parameters to for the H9, like for bypass and increment/decrement preset. The midi CC values range from 0-127 and can be set to toggle the max value or just linearly sweep between values. I assigned midi CC #15 for the bypass, CC#40 and 41 for decrement/increment, and I’ve tried multiple different CC numbers for the performance switch but currently it is using CC #15. Like I said earlier, for all other algorithms the performance switch midi parameter works fine when I use it this way, just not the timefactor algorithms.

This is my only controller for my setup and is the easiest way for me to send midi messages. I’m using the through output on the H9 as well to send midi messages to another pedal and then that uses a through output to send midi to a midi-CV eurorack module. I haven’t tried disconnecting the midi through connections from the H9, but I’ll try that tonight in case that somehow could be the problem.

[MattDrago]

camn wrote:

I would bet this is a feature, not a bug, Matt. If you sent the right signals, you get the right behavior. Probably I can help if you tell us exactly what you are trying to do…if your controller is suitably customizable. What controller are you using, and what messages are you sending?

I’m using an Akai Force with the midi out port to send midi to the H9. I assign knobs on the device to send miid CC to the H9, for example bypass I assigned to midi CC #5 and increment/decrement preset is assigned to CC #40 and #41. All other midi CC messages I have set up work perfectly on the Force without any issues.

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