Pitchfactor FX Loop Issue

[phoenix78]

Hi everyone!
I have an Issue with my Pitchfactor Pedal that drives me crazy. I run it in the serial fx loop of my amp and I have set bot levels to line. Bypass is set to DSP and Killdry is off. I can switch the fx loop of the amp on and off. Sorry for my not so perfect Englisch but I will try to formulate this problem as could as I can:

When I switch off the fx loop while an effect of the pitchfactor is active and then turn the fx loop on again, the effect virtually breaks out and sounds very loud and annoying, especially when using the clean channel. With heavy distortion it is not that bad. It seems like the effect is processed and processed again while the fx loop is off and thus pitched to a very high output level.

I tried different settings of the mentioned parameters above but couldn't find a solution to prevent this.

Has someone any idea how to solve this problem? Or is it the amp itselft?

[achaput]

Hello,

What kind of amp is it?

[phoenix78]

It's an Earforce Two (www.earforce.de), a custom made amp. I would be surprise if anyone has the same amp 😉

[timothyhill]

It may be that the amp is still sending the signal to the PF and only disconnecting the return of the amp's loop when the loop is switched off. It could also be that the amp's loop is sending a "loud click" when it's being switched and this is being processed by the PF. Another possibility might be the cables you're using to connect the amp and the PF.

Does the PF do this when you bypass it using the PF switches (leaving the amp's loop active – as opposed to your OP where you're bypassing the amp's loop and leaving the PF active)?

If so and this happens regardless of how you bypass the PF, it may be a problem with the PF or the cables you're using to connect the amp and the PF. You might try using different cables.

If not, I'm inclined to think this is being caused by the amp's loop. Whether or not leaving the amp's loop active and using the PF switches for bypass is an option for you depends on whether your PF is accessible (on the floor) or not (in a rack or otherwise not under-foot). You might try contacting Earforce.

[phoenix78]

Thanks for your answer. When I leave the FX Loop active all the time and bypass the effect with the PF switches then the problem is not occuring.

I think that you are right with your assumption that the signal is still sent into the fx loop. I will contact Earforce, maybe they have a solution.

[phoenix78]

Earforce says that the fx loop is completely bypassed if switched off. They told me that I should try to set the input of the Pitchfactor to guitar level as the amps loop has a relatively low level. This could lead to a massive level at the FX return and possibly be the reason for the strange effect.

I will try it out at my next rehearsal and tell you about the results. 

[timothyhill]

Yeah, if Earforce says the loop's operating at a low level and the PF has its output set to line, this could cause some significant noise. Make sure that the PF input is set to Guitar and the PF ourput is set to Amp. Hopefully, that will help. Let us know what you find, ok?

[phoenix78]

OK here is what I found out so far. If I the input / output level to guitar / amp, then the annoying noise is gone. But unfortunately this also leads to a noticeable volume drop when I activate the FX Loop of the amp.

Other ideas?

[timothyhill]

I'm not familiar with your amp, but does it have send and/or return level controls? If so, you should be able to adjust these to compensate.

The PF by itself shouldn't cause a huge drop in volume. Version 3 beta 16 of the software includes an output level control to help compensate for small volume differences. If you haven't, I'd try upgrading your pedal to the latest software and seeing if you can adjust the output level to compensate.

http://eventide.com/Home/Eventide/AudioDivision/Products/StompBoxes/PitchFactorUpdate.aspx

Does your amp do this with other pedals in the loop? How much of a volume drop are you experiencing? 3db? 6db? 10db? More?

Do you get the same volume drop if the PF is set to DSP or DSP+FX bypass as you do when it's set to RELAY bypass (PF UM p43)?

[phoenix78]

The Earforce amp has a level meter for the FX Loop, like every common parallel loop has. Difficult to say how much it is in db, i would suggest around 3-6db. The only other pedal that I have in the loop is an Akai Headrush 2 and with that I don't have any problems.

I haven't checked that so far. I will do that next week at tne next band practice.

In the meantime I updated the Pitchfactor to Version 3b16 and put it in the loop of my Orange Rockerverb 50 at home. I wanted to try out how different input/output settings will affect the peak on the level meter but to my surprise the peak never came close to the vertical bar, it wasn't even visible for most of the time! However the Volume is clearly higher when input / output are set to guitar / amp compared to line / line.

Also the Tuner is absolutely unusable as it doesn't seem to get enough input.

Could that mean that something with the PF is definitively wrong or is it again the FX Loop? The Rockerverb has a series FX Loop that is not adjustable.

[timothyhill]

Your obversation about the difference in level between guitar/amp and line sounds correct. The more signal the PF gets, the better the signal-noise ratio will be, too. Just make sure both input and output switches match, but it sounds like you have done so already.

It does seem odd that the PF isn't getting enough signal to use the tuner. I've got an Orange Rocker 30, but that doesn't have a loop, so I can't directly compare. I do have several amps with either parallel or series loops (or both). The send level of many series loops is controlled by the gain or volume controls, so maybe turning up a little will help (if that's an option in your practice space).

Does the PF get enough signal to use the tuner when you plug directly into it, before the amplifier? If not, it may be the PF that has the problem. I don't want to see you send the PF off for repairs if that's not definitely where the problem is, though, you know? Basically, just try it in every possible configuration. If the problem is always there, it may be the PF. If the problem only occurs in some configurations and not others, the problem is probably not the PF.

What are your settings for Bypass Type and Killdry? What about Global Mix? Moving back and forth between series (Rockerverb) and parallel (Earforce) loops usually requires changes to several settings, so maybe the problem's related to that. You did say that the volume drop occurs on every preset, and not just some but not others, right?

The Output Level in V3 can be adjusted up to +6db, so that may be enough to solve your problem, too. From the PF Update page…

"In PLAY Mode, holding down the Left Footswitch for 2 seconds from Bypass state puts the unit into Active and also puts the unit into Preset O/P Level Adjust Mode. While the footswitch is pressed and held the display will show “OP 0dB” (default). While continuing to hold the footswitch down you can optionally turn the Encoder Knob to adjust Preset Output Level from –20dB to +6dB in 1dB increments. Preset must be saved or this adjustment will be lost when another Preset is loaded. (Preset Level Adjust Mode functions the same way in BANK Mode by pressing and holding the Left or Middle Footswitch from Bypass state.)"

[phoenix78]

OK it seems that I finally have resolved this. Here the settings i used:

Earforce FX Loop mix set to 75%
PF Output level set to -3dB
Input / Output set to Guitar/Amp
Bypass Mode: Relay
Killdry off

It works more or less perfect. Only on FX like Crystals when reverb / feedback is set to relatively high values it creates some noise when the FX loop is activated, but it's by far not as disturbing as before!

Thanks for your help! 

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