Space not sending presets to factorlib

[MaxFX]

Hi,
I recently purchased a Used but new Space and it appears to have some anomalies so I am thinking I might have been boned…

It will not send preset data to factor lib and midi functionality appears to be limited to patch loads only.  I can't map anything, it doesn't accept clock info… The software has already been updated to the most recent version but I can't update it again as a precautionary measure because the SN is pre-registered.  I emailed support so hopefully I'll get the registration thing worked out but I'm wondering if my problems are typical?  

When I load info from my timefactor I hear a click and it sends the info to factorlib, space makes no sound and nothing ever loads into factorlib.

[nickrose]

Used but new ??

Try doing a complete reset (Restore Factory Settings and Presets – see UM).

If this doesn't help try the update again when you get your registration sorted.

If no good it will need to be looked at – support@eventide.com.

.

[MaxFX]

Used but new… as in, guy buys a space, uses it a couple of times, decides to buy an AxeFx and sells space on ebay.  I know… maybe I'm insanely stupid for believing him but his feedback was 99% and in triple digits so I thought it was a pretty safe bet, maybe not, I'm pretty naive sometimes.

Well, I got it to map a few things but I have yet to get it to sync tempo with timefactor.  I got the midi controller mapped to cc and it changes tempo with a single value of 127 but the tempo's still don't match.  The Timefactor is within 2-10 bpm of the mobius but the space always seems to show bpm when the TF shows ms but the led beats don't sync so it appears they aren't syncing.  

Anyway, I'll try to revert the space to original specs but I can't upgrade the firmware until I receive word back from support about registration.  The Eventide update utility says that the space is already registered to another user and the utility interface won't allow me to download software for the space.

I'll report back when it all said and done. 

[MaxFX]

Ok, did the reset, registered the pedal & upgraded the software despite it already having the latest.
 I got settings to download to factor lib and it appears to be working normally accept that I can't seem to get the space and timefactor to sync.  I did a hard reset (initialization) of the timefactor and made sure it was functioning normally.  Brock, in another thread noticed I didn't have the master in XMT so that was my fault.  Everything appears to be functioning as it should. WHEW, spent a whol day on this, what a waste!

[MaxFX]

I got the two pedals to sync based on Brock's suggestion (I didn't have output set to XMT) but when "midi > output" on the master (Timefactor) is set to XMT – Out then Space no longer receives Program Changes – Do I now have to map program changes?  So, essentially the clock/tempo is synchronized beautifully but the space doesn't see any program changes = useless.  I tried setting PGM XMT and CTL XMT both to "on" but it made matters worse.   I watched that video several times to see if there was an implication or subtle remark I missed, I see where I missed putting the master in XMT but the rest I had correct.  I noticed in the video that he didn't make any program changes or play through the demonstration devices, no mention of needing to map Program Changes after synchronizing Tap Tempo.

 

I can unchain the serial in's and outs of the three devices and plug each one into a 4 port midi hub, map the TF and Space to RCV CTL – TAP > C93 and program a dedicated control pedal on my FCB1010 to send a momentary CC93 with a value of 127.  This is an ok workaround accept that each pedal can be off by 2-30 BPM with every tempo change and often times the mobius will be as far off as 80-100BPM higher than the Eventide boxes.  

[brock]

Quote:

I can unchain the serial in's and outs of the three devices and plug each one into a 4 port midi hub

That's really not a bad idea.  The MIDI Output ports directly couple to the MIDI In jack (through opto-isolators).  All of your devices see themselves as 'first in line' for receiving MIDI messages.  This is the way to go for more complex MIDI systems, or as close as you can get to rock-solid timing.  The MIDI signal is 'split' in parallel, and re-conditioned for each of the four MIDI Outs.

When you daisy-chain MIDI Out to MIDI In, there's always going to be some kind of processing overhead contrributed by each device.  As a rule, newer MIDI devices are better at minimizing this delay than older, classic MIDI devices.  But it's there, and it accumulates with more devices in the chain.  You can usually get away with daisy-chaining 2,3,or 4 devices before you run into problems, but that depends on the components.  The Eventide boxes use a Soft-Thru, so there's going to be some software processing involved.

Quote:

… each pedal can be off by 2-30 BPM with every tempo change and often times the mobius will be as far off as 80-100BPM higher than the Eventide boxes.

Something else is going on here.  It shouldn't be that bad (especially at the high end of your range).  I do use an 8-Port MIDI Router on my rack, but the PitchFactor is daisy-chained on one port with two other MIDI effects.  One is ancient, and the other tends to 'fall asleep' with any kind of MIDI Clock delay.  The timing accuracy through all 3 devices has gotten even better with the PF latest update.  And I "feed" them (from another MIDI port) with an FCB-1010.

One thing that I do is to isolate only the essential MIDI messages to each footswitch.  Theoretically, that shouldn't matter.  But the FCB-1010 can send 5 Program Changes, two MIDI CCs, and a Note value with each footswitch.  Plus whatever may be happening with the two expression pedals.  While you should be able to get away with 1,000-1,500 messages per second, it's a serial protocol.  Real-world problems tend to creep in.

I also have Running Status enabled in the Global Configuration of the FCB-1010.  Simply put, it can eliminate some redundant parts of MIDI messages.  It doesn't appear to make a huge difference, but every little 'bit' helps in a complex MIDI system.  You're competing with MIDI CCs, PCs, MIDI Clock, Sysex, etc., and it's all travelling down the same single-lane highway.

The reported Mobius timing seems way out of line.  I got to look at the documentation a little (and now I know why you chose CC 93).  That part looks right; I don't think that you're "doubling" your tap tempo input (but I'm not positive about that).  You might want to check the Common Parameters [PARAMS -> TapDiv], and see if the presets you're using are set to Quarter Note.  Since this is saved per-preset, I would think you'd set tempo to Global for the system that you're creating here.

Maybe one or a combination of these things will help to get your devices back in line.

[MaxFX]

Thanks a lot for the dialog and comments, it definitely helps to know I'm not crazy with all of these issues and compromises in every direction.  Being new to complex midi setups I have been pulling out my hair wondering if it's me or the boxes I'm dealing with.   I started with the Timeline and thought, this midi stuff isn't so bad.  Then I threw myself into the fire, as I do with everything, and got four more midi pedals at the same time… needless to say a lot of this configuring of pedals and midi troubleshooting and quirks of each company/pedal has been an all consuming nighmare.  I haven't played guitar in a week because I've been making my own pedalboard cables and dealing with midi issues.

The Eventide XMT function became too much to deal with so I scrapped it and went with the 4 way midi splitter box from MIDI Solutions, it fits well between pedals and does what I need it to do.  This splitter box has worked great for the tap tempo solution.  The Mobius thing is a bit weird.  The global settings only allow for TAP to be set as GLOBAL or PRESET.  The division can only be set per preset.  Even so it wouldn't account for why the tempo registers within a few BPM of the Eventide boxes half of the time but twice that of the Eventide boxes the other half of the time.   It makes me wonder if the problem might be somewhere in the FCB.  I've been emailing Strymon with anomalies I'm finding throughout this setup process.

One odd thing with my Eventide pedals that I've struggled with is that the Mix setting doesn't remain static the first three or so times that I save it.  I'll make an adjustment, play through it for a while, save it, switch to a new patch and when I come back to it the Mix will be up higher or far lower than where I originally set it.  After I tweak and save three + times the settings eventually stay put but it's pretty frustrating sometimes.  I would have thought it was just my timefactor but space does it too, they both do it even after a hard reset/initialization.   A few times I've adjusted the weirdness out of a couple space patches so that they sound useable, change patches and when I come back to them the mix is completely zero'd leaving no effect, lol.

 I put my FCB in merge and it didn't seem to change anything with regards to my setup and the way data was or was not received but I only kind of know what I'm doing so I can't rule out user error.  The Running status is on as well.  

The other weird anomaly with the Mobius is that when I adjust the timing through my FCB tap switch it freezes the expression pedal so that it no longer effects change in parameters until I change patches and come back to it.  I don't expect to have to use tap tempo very much but as with every pedal the quirks start convoluting the controller programming process so that every FCB patch becomes a logistic nightmare in that it has to be carefully rationalized, mapped out and tested thoroughly according to song particulars.   

I'm now considering scrapping my conventional FCB setup and trying out the UNO stomp box mode.  I have yet to use it but it seems appealing in the sense that when all else fails I can always toggle effects one at a time, off and on, manually.  

[brock]

Quote:

needless to say a lot of this configuring of pedals and midi troubleshooting and quirks of each company/pedal has been an all consuming nighmare.  I haven't played guitar in a week because I've been making my own pedalboard cables and dealing with midi issues.

Everybody goes through this in the beginning with MIDI.  Add another device, and it seems like the complexity goes up exponentially.  All I can say is that there are big rewards after you go through the 'baptism by fire' stage.  You end up with the ultimate in configurability, in spite of the compromises.  The end result is that you have near-total control over designing your own effects, and end up with a signature sound like no one else.

[MaxFX]

Now I see why so many people avoid the midi thing.  You kind of have to be a flow chart and process logic kind of nerd to want to tackle such a beast, I mean that in the most complimentary way of course as I'm not so much into self flagellation, hahaha.  I see your point about having the ultimate in customizability, that's the whole reason I got started on this to begin with.  There is sooooooo much that can be done in the way of artistry with a well planned and intuitive midi setup.  The trial by fire is a hot one for sure but it's already sounding good and I'm just now starting to reap some of the rewards.  I figure it will take me another few months to have it perfected.  Right now my pedalboard is in the beta stage awaiting further development.  Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement.  

[Author]

Posts