Super strange routing issue!

[jorri]

I am using the space as mono in/stereo out.

It then goes into stereo ins on a delay as i split the signal To then have the Hologram microcosm in wet/dry, one side using an amp sim to send to PA. (But i dont think this should affect things?)

But the dry bypassed relay signal is VERY low. 20db or something.

UNTIL (the weird part) i engage any effect. It can be my analogue mono delay earlier in chain or the stereo delay i mentioned earlier, my zoom MS. But not drive pedals.

So why would that even be? Buffers? Why wouldnt the space function properly, ive tried most system menu options and the level switches.

Its super illogical, i maybe could understand it happening with a stereo pedal after. But a mono one before?? I havent walk through a looking glass or followed any rabbits recently – and also dont want to just be told ‘use DSP then’ otherwise i would.

Thanks!

[joecozzi]

Can you provide a diagram of your rig?

[jorri]

No problem. Hopefully ok to write it here. I tried out a couple of amp situations and they were similar but not indentical problems though:

Guitar>Overdrive>zoom MS in bypass loop>DBA fuzz>teisco delay>diy fuzz

This section goes into input of a carlsboro stingray super atm.

SEND>eventide space>ehx hazarai>a master volume ‘pedal’>RETURN

FROM OTHER SPACE OUTPUT>AMT ampsim>ehz hazarai other in+out> Hologram microcosm
>>>>>Im trying this thru a bass amp atm although idea is to use a PA for carrying and desk control.

The main reason is to get a parallel path for the Microcosm as its like a second instrument/looper more than an effect but thought it would sound good with the Space stereo (it does). Its some weird order to an extent but its what i like and saved another splitter box (guess that is an option-i have one but no pedalboard space.

The other way i tried was not using the fx loop, i just tested with sending it all to two input on one amp.

This way with the bass amp and fx loop it mostly has the problem on the bass amp’s channel. I had to crank it a lot to balance a fuzz only sound, but with hazarai engaged its like stepping on a boost and would have to turn the vol down.

I thought it could have been a prob with the hazarai, which seems to run two identical channels without ‘ping pong’ if there is a stereo input (thats what i want really as Space stereoes better) yet then why would the DSP mode rectify it? My main issue with DSP is i have dynamic sounds with fuzzes and dont want clipping, but it does also change tone a bit too much.

[joecozzi]

What Routing mode are you using for the Space?

[jorri]

Just the ‘normal’ mode.

[joecozzi]

The outputs of the Space (and I’m sure with the EHX as well) cannot be broken up in a dual mono way like this. This setup will not render neither a good mono signal nor a good stereo signal. Basically, one side of the Space’s output is going back to the amp while the other is being processed in other ways. That completely messes with the stereo imaging and will most certainly mess with your dry signal.

Analyzing your effects chain, it seems you’re trying to run a Wet/Dry rig. However, without a third amplifier you won’t be able to run any effects in stereo. Wet/Dry/Wet

If you run Space in Wet/Dry mode you’ll be able to send the dry signal to your amp and a properly summed mono signal to another amplifier or chain of effects. But if your aim is to have both amps give you a proper stereo signal, it’s not going to happen as currently configured.

Also, two inputs into one amp will never render stereo and it also won’t render a properly mono summed signal. You need another amp to stereo properly.

[jorri]

-my thinking behind it is more about the Hologram being wet/dry.
– sometimes i can get an impure stereo that signal seems like a bonus andi know its not an ideal identical left/right. Its more like bi-amping but all the better if there is some difference in signals, right?
– the space is not really used as a subsidary reverb either that could be wet/dry. id say its on fully wet mix most the time, or bypassed for shoegaze effects.
– was only using the two inputs as a testing scenario. Turn one side down and see if it works type thing…. But in this situation i get the weird attenuated dry signal.
– i havent tried without the hazarai. Same issue really that at least one song its full-wet. Oh and if that was stereo alone it ping pongs…so id get the rhythm screwed up/effects are too different.

-can try using a splitter box i guess, with
Space>hazarai>splitter to amp//splitter to ampsim and microcosm.

That could be worth trying if the splitter is decent enough. Its a passive ABY. Id just have to have some board overflow :).
I see how stereo in live situations isnt necessarily desirable anyway too, given the PA of a micced combo probably wouldnt be panned or anything.

Still…weird it did that, huh?

[joecozzi]

Matching impedances between I/O and in-chain effects is very important. Maybe the amp’s effects loop is playing a larger role than you think.

[jorri]

Just to follow up:
Yup, the MVP buffer resolved it all placed before and been experimenting without the fx loop with similar results. The reason i ised the fx loop is it clipped the amp but now i have an attenuator before it it wont, which has the advantage of my amp sim being alone, instead of ran through two preamps technically.

Id like something smaller as not really using it as a volume pedal though!

[jorri]

joecozzi wrote:

Matching impedances between I/O and in-chain effects is very important. Maybe the amp’s effects loop is playing a larger role than you think.

Could be something the amp is sending a lot of gain then ive got a master volume control. Although that other time i tried no fx loop.
Are you saying it might function better with a buffer? I used to use an active volume pedal (ernie ball MVP) that i can still try and dont care less about buffered bypass in fx loop. Coincidentally it splits into a good sounding tuner out too, so maybe even as my active splitter (would only control one channel) if it doesnt.

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